What would Q say about the Dominion War?

[Seven of Five]

I'm not sure why I thought about this scenario, because I was never a fan of Q being outside of TNG. Well, except maybe for Death Wish.

In Encounter at Farpoint, Q was pretty adamant that humanity's history of war and violence should not be allowed to prevail. As time went on, his views seemed less harsh, and more about teaching Picard about something. And yet l still keep thinking what he would say about it all.

Could another, later-series Q episode have worked, or was it best that he was just a one-off in a terrible episode?

 

[Arpy]

The war was Q's idea. For two millennia the Changelings ruled as gods all the solids they encountered. They became cocky and Q introduced them to the solids at another end of the galaxy. Sound familiar? De Lancie shot one additional short scene for DS9. In full Founder make-up, he materialized in the Female Changeling's prison cell, and said the words, "'Told you so," smiled, then flashed away. The scene was cut for time.

"Death Wish" was the only Q episode I liked outside TNG. (I vaguely remember kinda sorta liking "Q2," but probably only because I thought Q2 and Icheb were cute).

 

[Triskelion]

Q's absence for the Dominion war could suggest that he took a laissez-faire attitude toward the imminent threat to the AQ. That this trial, of its own accord, would provide sufficient learning opportunities for humanity. That is, if the posit holds true, of the Q Continuum intentionally influencing the human race, as suggested in novels like Q & A (by this board's own Keith R.A. DeCandido. A good read, too)!

If Q is in fact a malevolent entity, then there would be no reason to get involved. Just sit back an wait for the Pah Wraiths - who needed an avatar to wreak their havoc - not a transcendant being.

And then there is the matter of the Emissary ascending to a higher plane of existence. Maybe Q was just waiting to welcome him into the white zone, which is for loading and unloading of passengers only.

 

[TheSubCommander]

Really, at first I think Q's interest in humanity doesn't seem to hold up once you start examining other humanoid races, like the Vulcans, or Betazoids, or Trills, who are human like, but in some cases, seem a better version of humans. Then there are the humanoids that are of equal to better technology like the Romulans, or Klingons, that are more warlike, and arguably a greater threat to the universe. Then there is the host of near human races that were encountered in TOS where these races were visually indistinguishable from humans (IE Iotians, Platoans, Zeons, Ekosians), that almost seem offshoots of humanity.

Then, there are the cases where it's undetermined if the planets actually had humans, or just races that were parallel development (IE Magna Roma, Miri's planet, Omega IV). Are these the only humans to have been transplanted far from Earth, or are there others? Then there are the other non-humanoid races that seem to have evolved far beyond humanity that one would think were a greater threat to the q, because they had q like powers.

I think the whole point about the trial of humanity is that not that humans at this stage are any different from the rest of the humanoids in the AQ, but that humans from Earth specifically seem to posses a quality that the q seem to think will one day cause humanity to evolve beyond the rest of their humanoid counterparts, and even past the q. It was that something that caused the q to take notice and want to discover how they can learn from it.

But at the stage humanity is at in the 24th century, the q consider themselves so far advanced from humanity that petty wars don't interest them. We are a barbaric child race, and the dominion war is just the latest example. The q may also actually have their own prime directive, in which they can't interfere. Which would explain why Q was such an outsider to the continuum.

 

[Paradise City]

Well, Q in Encounter at Farpoint in judging humanity specifically, is the writers direct attempt to cajole contemporary human audiences to question the character of contemporary humanity. That's the big, provacative question in which they chose to introduce their show. Humanity is strewn with war but now it's time to mature from being an "aggressive child race" or face destruction. It's a thundering, angry question that chastises the audience but one that affords us possiblities if we renounce our complacency and lazy attitudes.

But of course in stressing humanity, Q brutally if indirectly casts the Federation as a resolutely human empire rather than the multiracial, egalitarian postulate it presents itself to be.

Q is not for mollycoddling anyone. So I presume he takes a 'let 'em have at it' approach to the DW or any other war. It doesn't seem that humanity has progressed in any real way that would please Q mind you.

 

[locutus101]

I wonder if anyone has ever tried writing Q2's essay "I, Q".

 

[WB2]

When you are omnipotent, another war is really nothing. I'm sure he couldn't care less. Plenty of wars to go around.

 

[Seven of Five]

I imagine so. I can picture him now barbing with Picard again. "Another fine mess you've gotten yourself into Jean-Luc."
"Hey it wasn't me this time. The guy that punched you started this one."
"Why am I not surprised?"

 

[locutus101]

I imagine so. I can picture him now barbing with Picard again. "Another fine mess you've gotten yourself into Jean-Luc."
"Hey it wasn't me this time. The guy that punched you started this one."
"Why am I not surprised?"

The jury's still out on whether Sisko was responsible for the Dominion war.

 

[TheGoodStuff]

It's an interesting question, and my two immediate thoughts on it are:

1. Seeing as he is Q, and we are mere mortals, it is very tricky to guess what he would think about anything.

2. If he is as timeless/immortal as he claims, this war is probably just another footnote in history to him. He probably couldn't care less about it. However, I can't help but suspect he probably 'kept an eye on it'. It seems like a just war for the Federation, and he clearly has an interest in the Federation/Humanity...so it wouldn't shock me to know he was watching proceedings. In fact, from his vantage point he could probably see the way it was going to go sooner than anyone else. Although, I am curious what the Continuum's relationship with the Prophets is. Perhaps that played a factor too.

 

[Vandervecken]

The war was Q's idea. For two millennia the Changelings ruled as gods all the solids they encountered. They became cocky and Q introduced them to the solids at another end of the galaxy. Sound familiar? De Lancie shot one additional short scene for DS9. In full Founder make-up, he materialized in the Female Changeling's prison cell, and said the words, "'Told you so," smiled, then flashed away. The scene was cut for time.

"Death Wish" was the only Q episode I liked outside TNG. (I vaguely remember kinda sorta liking "Q2," but probably only because I thought Q2 and Icheb were cute).

1. Sloan was really Q.

2. Garak's optolithic data rod failed inspection because of Q.

3. Q influenced the Prophets to shut down the wormhole on the Dominion fleet.

For all we know he was looking out for us after all. And he--and maybe more of the Continuum--liked the position that a human-run polity would now have in the AQ. With the destruction of Romulus--this still happens in the Prime universe doesn't it?--the weakening of the Klingons in civil war, and the complete ruin of the Cardassian Union, the Federation emerges the strongest empire of all in the AQ, gathering power to itself, all its enemies/belligerent neighbors who sided with the Dominion weakened and chastised, even perhaps the Tholians, who are at the least isolated now near the Feds; its scientific research edge, already the sharpest around, is now razor keen; and its scientific establishment is invigorated with new ideas from the war effort and from contact with the GQ.

Maybe winning this war paves the way for discoveries that will let humanity ascend. I don't see the actual event as any kind of gradual process! I can see this as being more of a priority than man weaning himself from all war. Besides, the Q had an internal war in humanity's lifetime--who are they to lecture about that? Frankly I have always looked on this accusation at EAF as the usual anti-human boilerplate we hear from self-proclaimed "advanced" types. Yes, they see and apprehend so much of existence that they are very hard to judge--they simply know so much more that their motives have to be mostly inscrutable. But in no way do I see them ethically our superiors.

Time and again we see the Q trying to find ways to fight stagnation. They are omnipotent but in many ways seem to be a degenerating people losing THEIR edge. I rather think they WANT the company of another race in the Continuum, a race they can confide in on an equal footing, instead of being the scarecrow!

 

[Arpy]

The Q aren't degenerating, I don't think. They're omnipotent and omniscient. They work on things; they just have no further to grow. For some in the herd, those without the ability to just "be" (those without chill, or zen, or, as the Dude teaches us, abide), they choose to end their perfect existence. But degeneration would only mean yo-yoing.

Also, if they are omnipotent, then wouldn't any other beings that reach their perfect state, be exactly as they are? That would mean there'd be more people just like them around, not anything new. Yet they're assholes to our view.....there's more going on than we know.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

What does if matter what the Q think about the war when there is already a (semi-) deified race interfered in the fighting?

I think that Q's one appearance in the series was a mistake. As TheSubCommander points out, Q's examination of humanity becomes problematic when put up against the diversity of life in the Star Trek universe. DS9 pushed diversity harder than TNG, but more importantly, asked viewers to care about something that was not Earth and that was not humanity. Indeed, our hero, Sisko, is in the process of becoming Bajoran in many respects. Introducing the Q into the Dominion War would have created very dissonant story telling. Imagine if Sisko implored Q to stop the fleet from coming through the wormhole; or if it had been Q who tempted Winn to the darker aspects of Bajoran Religion; or if it turned out that Q had taken over Sisko's mother. Q ends up being in the same universe as DS9 almost entirely as an artifact of TNG, and it is easy to image he has no roll in, including having an opinion of, the events of DS9.

 

[Arpy]

Q's been all over the place. As have Q, Q, Q, and Q. If they did chose to send Q to DS9 again, he should have messed with a Bajoran or someone other than a human. Maybe while there, Sisko implores him to do something with the best TNG-like speech to end all speeches and Q says not to bother him with your silly foibles. If you go extinct before you reach Q-dom, you never deserved it in the first place.

It'd be interesting if Q's interest is in something much "smaller" than the destruction of the entire galaxy. Say a single person's soul. Or to go further, even a single person's smile. Say before they're killed in the war. Because Q reasons. It may echo Q's interest in Vash too much, but I like the atypical approach to the character. DS9 wasn't initially about swooping in the save the fate of an entire planet week after week.

And it doesn't have to be the same Q. Or what if it was Q, not the new "pah-wraiths" tempting Winn to her destruction? If the devout Bajorans betrayed their gods, maybe that was their test. Meh, maybe not. In the end, it's the human Sisko or the Prophets that save the Bajorans, not themselves so why would Q bother? But I'm all for Q showing he has interests beyond the conceited humans.

 

[kkt]

1. Sloan was really Q.

An interesting idea, but how would you motivate Sloan/Q to allowing Bashir and O'Brien to probe his mind, steal some of his secrets, and ultimately kill him?

Hm. Perhaps it was a test, to see if the Federation would freely give the Founders the cure. And the Federation failed, so we will not be allowed to become Q for at least another millennium.

 

[Vandervecken]

An interesting idea, but how would you motivate Sloan/Q to allowing Bashir and O'Brien to probe his mind, steal some of his secrets, and ultimately kill him?

Hm. Perhaps it was a test, to see if the Federation would freely give the Founders the cure. And the Federation failed, so we will not be allowed to become Q for at least another millennium.

Seemed freely enough to me...you mean exacting a price of a ceasefire, an end to hostilities, would not be acceptable to the Q? I would think that would be the one quid for the quo they would accept as legit, if they mean their talk about war.

Q can easily pretend to die I'd say, and also allow mind probes that would find only what he wants found, or even just feed mind probes what he wants to. Not much I can think of that he can't do (maybe annihilate the whole universe). The motive would be for the humans to be in charge and make a decision, one way or the other. If the Sloan persona were still around, they'd always be looking over their shoulders and wondering if they did make the decision or were manipulated--which is a funny thought in this scenario, that in order to not think they were manipulated they had to be manipulated.

It was just a throwaway thought, but your additional fleshing is causing me to warm to it slightly. It is about 13+ billion light years away from canon, but what the hey. We can put nearly anything on Q.

 

[Jedi Marso]

I don't think Q was really interested in the Federation or humanity at all- he was interested in Picard. In my head canon, when Jean-Luc is on his death-bed or finally one micro-second from meeting his true, actual end, Q is going to appear to him and ask the big question: "Are you ready to become a real explorer?"

And that is when shit is going to get real in the Continuum.

 

[locutus101]

I don't think Q was really interested in the Federation or humanity at all- he was interested in Picard. In my head canon, when Jean-Luc is on his death-bed or finally one micro-second from meeting his true, actual end, Q is going to appear to him and ask the big question: "Are you ready to become a real explorer?"

And that is when shit is going to get real in the Continuum.

But Picard WAS dead, if only for a while, in Tapestry.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Another thought. The Federation arguably were armed enough to stand against the Dominion, because of the prep they did for the Borg.

The Q are officially neutral but Q put his finger on the scales just like he did in All Good Things.

The only way you can say Sisko was responsible for the war was finding the wormhole to begin with. The moment the Federation entered the GQ, nothing would have dissuaded the Founders from 'Bringing order' to the AQ.

 

[TheSubCommander]

1. Sloan was really Q.

2. Garak's optolithic data rod failed inspection because of Q.

3. Q influenced the Prophets to shut down the wormhole on the Dominion fleet.

Where are you getting all of that? Head canon? A non-canon novel?