What would have improved Voyager?

[Angel4576]

One of the posts above infers that they were able to leave at the end of Voyager. Don't know if that's true or not. If it is, then why not leave? They had 12 months knowing that the seventh season of Voyager would be the last.

If the statement was false, then there are ways of maneuvering yourself out. I'll use the Straczynski example again. Refuse to take network direction. They either replace you or let you get away with it. If they replace you, you're freed up for other work.

Considering that Berman had overseen Trek for well over a decade by that point, I find it hard to believe that 1) he wouldn't be able to take a few months out to find other projects before he and his family were on the breadline, and 2) he would struggle to any degree to find work if he wanted it.

 

[Anwar]

They were ordered to make ENT while VOY was still on, that's why Ken Biller took over VOY in the last season. Still under contract.

And they didn't have the degree of control that JMS had over all his work (because he was the actual creator of the B5 universe) so his strategy wouldn't work for them.

As for the "DS9 was good because VOY sucked" thing, that's another lie. DS9 had its freedom due to being syndicated, not because VOY took all the attention. Berman was as involved with DS9 as he was with VOY.

 

[Kegek]

Gotham Central said:
On the one hand I think people have given Berman a pass regarding creative mediocrity. Yes UPN may have intervened but Berman had a big hand in ensuring that Trek never took ANY chaqnces.

True. But if you want Berman-Trek in which he had the greatest creative control, I refer you to TNG. There's a marked difference in quality between TNG and the quality of VOY. Part of this is due to UPN, and part of this is due to fatigue, (part of the reason he didn't want this show created to begin with). TNG is a conservative show (as far as risk-taking is concerned), but not a bad one.

 

[Angel4576]

Anwar said:
They were ordered to make ENT while VOY was still on, that's why Ken Biller took over VOY in the last season. Still under contract.

And they didn't have the degree of control that JMS had over all his work (because he was the actual creator of the B5 universe) so his strategy wouldn't work for them.

As for the "DS9 was good because VOY sucked" thing, that's another lie. DS9 had its freedom due to being syndicated, not because VOY took all the attention. Berman was as involved with DS9 as he was with VOY.

Actually, the strategy holds. JMS has always maintained that he won't return to the Crusade storyline as that effectively belongs to TNT/WBs. Given that JMS has used one of the characters back in the B5 main universe after the cancellation it would suggest that JMS has control over the characters to some degree at least. Hence, it's unlikely that TNT would have been able to continue with the show under different direction.

That however, wasn't the point. UPN would undoubtedly have continued knocking out Star Trek whether it was Berman/Braga or someone else. There were definitely ways for them to check out, especially from Enterprise. Yet they chose to stay. What would the point be of them leaving? Presumably their reputations would have benefitted. Whether it's true or not, the perception is that they delivered Star Trek's death knell with Enterprise. They'd also have been freed up for other projects. If Berman and Braga are that great, why would they need the Star Trek crutch to keep them going? The Straczynski situation was highlighted to show that there are ways of maneuvering away from a show without falling foul of the legalities contained within contracts.

 

[exodus]

Angel4576 said:
One of the posts above infers that they were able to leave at the end of Voyager. Don't know if that's true or not. If it is, then why not leave? They had 12 months knowing that the seventh season of Voyager would be the last.

If the statement was false, then there are ways of maneuvering yourself out. I'll use the Straczynski example again. Refuse to take network direction. They either replace you or let you get away with it. If they replace you, you're freed up for other work.

That's why JMS is stuck doing comic books and can't get another B5 project off the ground. The man only had one creative project in his head for what is now close to two decades.

To answer your first question, I'll ask you this: Why do you work?

 

[Valen]

1) Caretaker part 1 should have been the season fanalie of Season 1. Killing off the XO, Doctor and Chief engieneer all at once would have been a big shock.

2) The caretaker had spent months bringing in ships from throughout the galaxy. We should have encountered more of them. The Seska storyline would have been more interesting if it were a Cardassian capital ship that was trying to make alliances and trade technology with the locals. Perhaps groups from similar parts of the galaxy might form fleets to go back home. Voyager could join such a fleet that might include: The Equinox, a Romulan Ship, Tholian ship, maquis ship.

2) Either Nelix, Kes and seven needed to wear Star Fleet uniforms, or the Maquis didn't.

3) Kes should have aged 10 years for each season. Havinf children and grandchildren along the way. I'll bet her biological clock going off would be alot more urgent than pon far!

4) More than one, indian, vulcan and bajoran.

5) The science officer should be higher ranked than an ensign!

6) Harry should have been the borg crew member instead of Barbie of Borg! He should have been an assimilated borg acting as ambassidor/spy for the collective. Being assimilated should be essential for his health due to the 8472 infection.

7) No borg queen! The queen destroys what make the borg unique and scary!

Chakotay's spirituality should not have been forgotten.

9) a post coming home season so we could see what happened to them.

 

[Angel4576]

^^ You've obviously not heard of The Changeling, Borrowed Lives, World War Z and They Marched into Sunlight. Clint Eastwood's directing The Changeling, Angelina Jolie will be starring in it. World War Z is being produced by Brad Pitt, no casting news yet, and They Marched into Sunlight will be directed by Paul Greengrass.

Not bad for someone 'stuck doing comics'. Comics have always been an important medium for JMS, that's not likely to change anytime soon, whether he's producing feature scripts or not.

Then, of course, there's the likely second volume of The Lost Tales as well. The first set exceeded all expectations laid down by WBs. Granted, those expectations wouldn't have been as strenuous as those probably in mind for the next Trek movie, but seriously, when was the last time Trek actually exceeded expectations on any level?

The man only had one creative project in his head for what is now close to two decades.

Which one might that be? B5? Jeremiah? Rising Stars? Supreme Power? Spider-man? Any of his feature work?

An odd statement when we're talking about the virtues of one Rick Berman, who was stuck on Trek for what? Oh, nearly two decades.

You be sure to let me know when Berman's got a feature coming out

 

[exodus]

Angel4576 said:
^^ You've obviously not heard of The Changeling, Borrowed Lives, World War Z and They Marched into Sunlight. Clint Eastwood's directing The Changeling, Angelina Jolie will be starring in it. World War Z is being produced by Brad Pitt, no casting news yet, and They Marched into Sunlight will be directed by Paul Greengrass.

Not bad for someone 'stuck doing comics'. Comics have always been an important medium for JMS, that's not likely to change anytime soon, whether he's producing feature scripts or not.

Then, of course, there's the likely second volume of The Lost Tales as well. The first set exceeded all expectations laid down by WBs. Granted, those expectations wouldn't have been as strenuous as those probably in mind for the next Trek movie, but seriously, when was the last time Trek actually exceeded expectations on any level?

The man only had one creative project in his head for what is now close to two decades.

Which one might that be? B5? Jeremiah? Rising Stars? Supreme Power? Spider-man? Any of his feature work?

An odd statement when we're talking about the virtues of one Rick Berman, who was stuck on Trek for what? Oh, nearly two decades.

You be sure to let me know when Berman's got a feature coming out

So you know JMS's career like the back or your hand but don't understand the business & personal reasons why B&B stayed at a job they were getting paid well for or why they couldn't afford to leave?

I'm pretty sure you've seen Berman's work & probably own much of it too.

 

[Angel4576]

TNG and DS9-wise, yep, but I wouldn't necessarily credit that to Berman. Certainly not why I've bought any of it. Straczynski's work, I'm always inclined to check it out. I may end up not liking it, but there's a decent chance I will. Berman, hard to say, Star Trek aside, is there that much? Particularly in the modern era?

Re Berman's motives for not leaving. Surely there's a business case to preserve your reputation, particularly in the field of work that he's in. Sticking with Enterprise to the bitter end's not exactly enamoured him to the industry, and by the looks of it, the offers don't appear to have been flooding in.

 

[exodus]

Angel4576 said:
TNG and DS9-wise, yep, but I wouldn't necessarily credit that to Berman.

Well, you should because he still produced both and co-created DS9.

None of us are professionals within the industry to say how he is viewed within it. The reasons why he isn't working are only known to him. Dealing with Paramount and zealous Trek fans, I wouldn't be surprised if the man had a nervous breakdown.

 

[Angel4576]

exodus said:
Dealing with Paramount and zealous Trek fans, I wouldn't be surprised if the man had a nervous breakdown.

Poetic if he'd gone schizo with an uzi at Paramount HQ!

 

[Kegek]

Angel4576 said:
Which one might that be? B5? Jeremiah?

From what I've heard, his Jeremiah had a lot of thematic rehashs of B5. What I know for sure is that his Star Trek pitch did. You can mock Berman, but he was the only TNG producer there from beginning to end (being executive most of the time too), and he was both co-creator of DS9 and the only executive producer from beginning to end. Two shows, seven seasons - that's already more than JMS when it comes to JMS's good work.

 

[exodus]

Kegek said:

Angel4576 said:
Which one might that be? B5? Jeremiah?

From what I've heard, his Jeremiah had a lot of thematic rehashs of B5. What I know for sure is that his Star Trek pitch did. You can mock Berman, but he was the only TNG producer there from beginning to end (being executive most of the time too), and he was both co-creator of DS9 and the only executive producer from beginning to end. Two shows, seven seasons - that's already more than JMS when it comes to JMS's good work.

Take that , Spider-man!!!!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Jerimiah was originally a comic book written by some one else. JMS has been burning bridges with a little tirade across the internet over his departure from Amazing Spider-Man. His Thor comic, number 7 came out a week back and it's losing it's sparkle. Though he's just began some thing called "The 12" which shows promise of TRYING to be the new Watchmen. So, he's not completely done with Marvel.

Besides captain power and the soldiers of the Future, as well as the real Ghost Busters were both excellent efforts at vision from JMS... i haven't looked at his bio in a decade

 

[Akiraprise]

Since nobody wants to remain on topic, after being asked to a couple of times, this thread is closed.

Feel free to start a new one in General Trek.