What would have improved Voyager?

[startrekwatcher]

exodus said:
Voyager tried to be intellectual with high concept stories during the first few seasons and veiwership was still declining.

Yes I would agree the first two seasons, despite some problems, in hindsight were closer to the type of Trek series I would prefer.

At the time I was unaware of how well or how poorly it was performing. I didn't go to the internet. The reason it didn't click for me were the characters just didn't do much for me and the stories were hit or miss. Season three was the point where I actually considered bailing given the poor quality with strings of poor showings like Rise, Favorite Son, Darkling, Coda, Sacred Ground, Blood Fever, The Q and the Grey etc.

They gave us "Scorpion", with the Borg and action and for a brief moment the viewership increased.

I can't speak for others but "Scorpion" offered me some hope that VOY would have a turnaround. By the way Scorpion worked so well for more reasons than just action and Borg. It had some nice character dynamics and forced the crew to face a grim choice.

Voyager was a show that wasn't going to make everybody happy no matter what they did. So the show had little choice in becoming whatever it became.

I disagree. UPN should have left the writers alone. Afterall the whole point of using the same people responsible for TNG's success was to make another Trek series. Problem was they didn't let them.

As for the interne fans they are so extreme and contradictory if UPN listened to them then the suits were idiots.

And no show pleases everyone. I still would argue VOY's issues had nothing to do with lack of conflict or no arcs or not showing damage or a lapse in continuity but the individual quality of writing in the standalones they did do. TOS and TNG both made their bread and butter off of one-off shows. Most people including the casual audience are simply interested in being entertained by what they are watching and to care for the characters.

They are too busy with life to take the time to overanalyze or nitpick a tv program and then immediately run off to their computers to share their two cents with others on the anonymous internet.

 

[exodus]

^^I must admit, many of the points you made I do agree with.

Besides Sacred Ground( I love that ep., I like the debate of science vs. faith), the rest you named also almost made me turn Voyager off too. Seven really saved the show for me. She became everything I felt the show lacked.

Seven & Be'Lanna are what kept me tuning in week after week.

UPN couldn't leave the writers alone, they had too much riding on this show. They relied on Voy. & then ENT. to sell merchendise, to promote the Experance and make Star Trek into Star Wars.

 

[Angel4576]

exodus said:
Seven really saved the show for me. She became everything I felt the show lacked.

I, erm, see what you mean.....

 

[exodus]

Ahhhhh, the life of a sex symbol.

 

[Angel4576]

^^ Certainly beats Sirtis in a leotard!

 

[exodus]

Angel4576 said:
^^ Certainly beats Sirtis in a leotard!

We have to choose?

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'm sure there was a CSI where some one was murdered with Citrus in a leotard.

 

[Eminence]

Nothing would have improved Voyager, because Voyager doesn't need to be improved. Just look at the viewership of the Voyager vs DS9 boards. Consistently, more people are still interested in Voyager, whether for good or for bad. And you know why? Because all the conversations that could have been had about DS9 have already been had. DS9 is done. Voyager on the other hand continues to be a source of controversy, a source of intrigue, 7 years later and it still brings out passionate attacks and passionate defenses in people....I remember reading somewhere once that...."It's better to be talked about in a negative light than to not be talked about at all." DS9 is now just a distant if fond memory in many people's mind, whereas Voyager continues to fascinate, even after all this time.

 

[misskim86]

Lol the most active posts are what was wrong or what could have been improved with Voyager, I hardly see that as proof that DS9 which hardly has any similar threads was less interesting

 

[exodus]

misskim86 said:
Lol the most active posts are what was wrong or what could have been improved with Voyager, I hardly see that as proof that DS9 which hardly has any similar threads was less interesting

You missed the point Eminance is making.

She is saying that because DS9 is so well liked here and agreed that's it's the best Trek show, there isn't much passonate debate going on to talk about it.

However, Voyager is either loved or hated. Because people have such strong views about it, it adds controversy. Controversy creates conversation and debate. The more controversy & debate, the more chance it gives us to talk about Voyager more so than DS9.

Even bad press is good press, because it still gets you noticed.

 

[misskim86]

Alright I can't argue with that, altough bad press might get you cancelled too

 

[Guy Gardener]

I's true. DS9 is so grand, other than "appreciation" threads saying how much each and every single episode is mag... Well, that got boring quickly.

Voyager is so imperfect and unfinished and clumsy, with so many dead ends and mistakes and consistencies and careless behaviour and writing that I'll be find errors and fusterclucks for years to come.

I suppose I could defend DS9? But there's no real enemy over there to rise to the occassion for.

 

[DumbDumb2007]

Voyager shoukld have been a larger ship with more cew and a youthful male captain would have made sense. Janeway was a good idea but it worked against them.
the guy who played the officer from the Enterprise-C would have made a good Captain ( Scott Mcdonald?) as w ell as Bill Campbell who almost played Riker.
To have a woman Captain and then rely on a subordinate officer for the fist fights Blew... The character of Seven of Nice is what saved the show from cancelaltion like Enterprise .
The idea of an ex borg on the ship should have come in in yr 1 and it shoulkd have bene structured differently with diff stories wite the Captain making an occasional move like Captain Ransom . Using teh Kazon and playing them at their own game would have worked.
Letting the whole ship get captured was sheer stupidity.
Holograpohic engineers should have been introduced in the first episode .
The ship should have had saucer sep capability with a Battle Bridge that would have made more sense to have since the ship was in more battles.
The idea of the Delta Flyer should have been thought of in season 1 but it wouldk have bene to much like DS9"s Defiant which is why it was put in later on.
Tom Paris shoukd have been made into the Ops Officer and Harry Kim should have really taken over the Astrometrics lab and been senior Ops Office wit ha greater set of responsibilities. A Whole new Conn officer from the Maquis shoukd have bene cast. A super youthful non couch potato.
Torres shoukd have been a Full Klingon. the half breed stuff didnt work.
Janeway also should have been Captain of an eariler ship like a Reliant type ship. Her decisions were flawed. Tuvok should have been established earlier on as an officer who had served on the Excelsior.
It goes on...

 

[Guy Gardener]

There were fist fights?

Janeway running around pretending to be Ripley in Macro Virus showed that if the scripts told hr to be action girl that Kate could carry the issue.

Apart from the boxing episode? Chuckles was always the peace maker because Janeway was insanely violent starting wars with everyone they met.

It took 6 years for me to see Tim Russ do some Kung Fu in Gravity and I lept for joy utterly.

Voyager just didn't have that much bare knuckles violence.

 

[exodus]

Guy Gardener said:
Chuckles was always the peace maker because Janeway was insanely violent starting wars with everyone they met.

Dude, check out the eps. where Janeway leaves Chakotay in charge of the ship. He's gets a shoot first, screw the questions attitude every time.

 

[exodus]

DumbDumb2007 said:
Voyager shoukld have been a larger ship with more cew and a youthful male captain would have made sense. Janeway was a good idea but it worked against them.
the guy who played the officer from the Enterprise-C would have made a good Captain ( Scott Mcdonald?) as w ell as Bill Campbell who almost played Riker.
To have a woman Captain and then rely on a subordinate officer for the fist fights Blew... The character of Seven of Nice is what saved the show from cancelaltion like Enterprise .
The idea of an ex borg on the ship should have come in in yr 1 and it shoulkd have bene structured differently with diff stories wite the Captain making an occasional move like Captain Ransom . Using teh Kazon and playing them at their own game would have worked.
Letting the whole ship get captured was sheer stupidity.
Holograpohic engineers should have been introduced in the first episode .
The ship should have had saucer sep capability with a Battle Bridge that would have made more sense to have since the ship was in more battles.
The idea of the Delta Flyer should have been thought of in season 1 but it wouldk have bene to much like DS9"s Defiant which is why it was put in later on.
Tom Paris shoukd have been made into the Ops Officer and Harry Kim should have really taken over the Astrometrics lab and been senior Ops Office wit ha greater set of responsibilities. A Whole new Conn officer from the Maquis shoukd have bene cast. A super youthful non couch potato.
Torres shoukd have been a Full Klingon. the half breed stuff didnt work.
Janeway also should have been Captain of an eariler ship like a Reliant type ship. Her decisions were flawed. Tuvok should have been established earlier on as an officer who had served on the Excelsior.
It goes on...

Your making Voyager a carbon copy of every Trek before it. I'm sorry my man but there isn't one original idea here.

 

[Angel4576]

^^ Isn't that a non-sequitur?

 

[exodus]

Angel4576 said:
^^ Isn't that a non-sequitur?

No, it was an episode of Voyager.

 

[Angel4576]

^^ How appropriate

 

[Guy Gardener]

exodus said:

Guy Gardener said:
Chuckles was always the peace maker because Janeway was insanely violent starting wars with everyone they met.

Dude, check out the eps. where Janeway leaves Chakotay in charge of the ship. He's gets a shoot first, screw the questions attitude every time.

I'm thinking of equinox when he wants to keep the side arms velcroed to their utility belts as a sign of good faith, but janeway tells him "no way" because it's "take aim and wait for the order to shoot to kill." And I'm also thinking of Basics when the Vulcan is making Weapons and Janeway is making lines in the sand, but Chakotay rescues a baby from a volcano heralding a new age of peace.

Are you thinking of Scorpion? but even then his plan to screw the Borg was only to leave them some place safe and run away instead of exterminating 8472. Hell even in an episode called "The Fight" he's communicating via being a gimp bitch to weird aliens who talk with a freaky accent.

When was Chakotay the bloodthirsty one?