What Will TDK's Final (Domestic) Box Office Total Be?

[Kegek]

Well said. The Dark Knight's performance also owes its success to the fact it's a damn good film and has received excellent word of mouth.

No question about it. It is the best film of the last three decades. But you do have to accept also that the death of Ledger played a slightly significant portion of interest from non-fans to go watch the movie.

Hype much?

Quite. Among other things the last three decades encompassed the entirety of Wong Kar-wai's career as a filmmaker.

There's little doubt in my mind, though, that it's one of the best summer blockbusters of the past three decades. And one of the best new films I've seen in theatres this year. My Winnipeg is the best such film I've seen this year, but that's a very eccentric choice of mine, I'll concede.

And here is the Top 10 Movies of all time domestic gross. How many think all of these are great film. Two of them are complained about almost on a weekly basis.
1 Titanic
2 Star Wars
3 The Dark Knight
4 Shrek 2
5 E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial
6 Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace
7 Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest BV
8 Spider-Man Sony $403,706,375 2002
9 Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith
10 The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King

I think Star Wars, The Dark Knight, and The Return of the King are good movies. Haven't seen E.T. in years, but I have fond memories of it. Did not see Spider-Man or Dead Man's Chest, did not greatly care for Shrek 2, Titanic or The Phantom Menace, believe Revenge of the Sith is the best Star Wars prequel but that's not saying much.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Well said. The Dark Knight's performance also owes its success to the fact it's a damn good film and has received excellent word of mouth.

No question about it. It is the best film of the last three decades. But you do have to accept also that the death of Ledger played a slightly significant portion of interest from non-fans to go watch the movie.

Hype much?

Indeed. While The Dark Knight is easily my favorite film of the year and favorite superhero movie, it's probably not even in my top ten...either ever or in the past 30 years.

 

[Harvey]

I must admit, I haven't seen a lot of films in theatres from this year that grabbed me and said 'this is great.' I really liked Redbelt, but apparently no one saw that. And The X-Files: I Want To Believe really appealed to me, but that was coming to the film as a hardcore fan, and I'd hardly call it one of the best of the year. So, yeah, The Dark Knight is definitely up there. I'd easily call it the best summer movie of the year. Of the past three decades? Raiders of the Lost Ark and The Empire Strike back still give it a run for its money as summer films (and it would be a lie to ignore my great soft spot for Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...not really sure if that was a summer release, actually, but it seems appropriate). And there are dozens, if not hundreds of films at least as worthwhile as The Dark Knight that have come out during that time (even during the 1980s, which is about as disinteresting a decade cinematically for me as they come, at least in the United States).

 

[Kegek]

Raiders of the Lost Ark and The Empire Strike back still give it a run for its money as summer films (and it would be a lie to ignore my great soft spot for Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...not really sure if that was a summer release, actually, but it seems appropriate).

It was - June 4th. Which is why I said TDK was one of the best. I think some are arguably better, but not that many. Empire certainly.

(even during the 1980s, which is about as disinteresting a decade cinematically for me as they come, at least in the United States).

Elsewhere, a little movie called Ran was made.

 

[Harvey]

(even during the 1980s, which is about as disinteresting a decade cinematically for me as they come, at least in the United States).

Elsewhere, a little movie called Ran was made.

I'm ashamed to say I've never seen it.

It's hard to rent movies like that when I'm trying to deal with three other people in the house, and when it comes to buying DVDs, when I can pick up a whole season (or more) for less than a good Criterion disc costs new, I usally go with the box set.

Which probably explains why I've seen more hours of Stargate Atlantis than Kurosawa. I know, I know... *hides*

 

[Kegek]

I'm ashamed to say I've never seen it.

It's hard to rent movies like that when I'm trying to deal with three other people in the house, and when it comes to buying DVDs, when I can pick up a whole season (or more) for less than a good Criterion disc costs new, I usally go with the box set.

Criterion DVDs are the only ones I'll buy blind, though I do study the back a while to see if I'm sure it's a film I'll like. Speaking of American films from the 1980s released under the Criterion label, I recently picked up Paul Schrader's Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters. Granted, it's in Japanese and has a Japanese cast and it's filmed in Japan... hm. Good movie though, and I still think that's Philip Glass' best film score.

It's true, however - they aren't cheap. But with the restoration, commentaries, booklets and other extras (as well as the often astonishing quality of the films) I think it's a pretty good line.

Anyway, I have the reverse - virtually no TV on DVD. So if I want to watch TV I'm dependent on the caprices of the various networks. I've been meaning to watch things like Battlestar Galactica and The Wire, but that's not really an option in my position.

Which probably explains why I've seen more hours of Stargate Atlantis than Kurosawa. I know, I know... *hides*

It goes without saying I recommend Ran.

 

[Harvey]

^^
It's a shame you don't live around these parts, Kegek (I assume, anyway). It seems I own everything you need to see, and visa versa. Okay, okay, so nobody is really lining up to watch my SGA DVDs, but what can I say, sometimes you need to have the big mac--its flashy, feels good going down, and sometimes it even tastes good...but you're left regretting it for weeks.

I'll get to Ran one of these days. Maybe I'll be able to clean up on Criterion titles once the Blu-Ray shift really starts to happen.

 

[Samurai8472]

It was - June 4th. Which is why I said TDK was one of the best. I think some are arguably better, but not that many. Empire certainly.

Whenever a sequel does really well it's compared to Empire like "How good was it? It was Empire strikes back good!

 

[Kegek]

^^
It's a shame you don't live around these parts, Kegek (I assume, anyway).

Ireland, so I'm a fair distance from either Ithaca.

It seems I own everything you need to see, and visa versa.

Yeah, it's pretty ironic.

Okay, okay, so nobody is really lining up to watch my SGA DVDs, but what can I say, sometimes you need to have the big mac--its flashy, feels good going down, and sometimes it even tastes good...but you're left regretting it for weeks.

I'm not judging you. I don't see the appeal of the show myself - I've liked the odd SG-1 episode but never could sit through Atlantis for some reason. It's a show I'd like to like since I miss the old space operas with aliens and so on. Nothing promising in that field since Farscape went off the air.

I'll get to Ran one of these days. Maybe I'll be able to clean up on Criterion titles once the Blu-Ray shift really starts to happen.

In which case I'll be envious. It'll take me forever to convert my Kurosawa films alone (not to mention my Japanese films in general - or worse still, my whole library) up to Blu-ray.

 

[romulus]

I can understand why some people don't buy into the reasoning that if a movie makes tons of money it must be good.

But I can't understand why those same people arrogantly assume that if a person doesn't like some "classic" or "important" "film" they are morons. Yeah that is much more logical reasoning than buying into hype.

 

[Harvey]

I'm not judging you. I don't see the appeal of the show myself - I've liked the odd SG-1 episode but never could sit through Atlantis for some reason. It's a show I'd like to like since I miss the old space operas with aliens and so on. Nothing promising in that field since Farscape went off the air.

Battlestar Galactica is quite excellent, but I know you don't have the same access to that and haven't been as impressed by what you've seen of it as I have been. And since it doesn't have aliens in it, I know it doesn't fit the space opera as you'd like to see it. For that, there really hasn't been a good substitute since the late, great Farscape went off the air (although new Farscape webisodes are being made at the moment, which is cool).

Stargate is the summer blockbuster version of the space opera, and not only that, but it's the big dumb version of it that can't always find its voice.

And don't worry, I know you're not judging (too much), Kegek. I'm just kicking myself for not being able to kick the Stargate brand 3-4 years past its prime.

 

[Kegek]

Battlestar Galactica is quite excellent, but I know you don't have the same access to that and haven't been as impressed by what you've seen of it as I have been.

I just saw the first part of the miniseries. I was really not in a mood at this point to watch anything that didn't knock my socks off (after abandoning Enterprise and being underwhelmed by Firefly) so I didn't go beyond that point. Given its fanbase, though - and its comparisons to DS9 - I'm willing to give the show another shot. I gave Farscape another shot, after all, and was richly rewarded.

(although new Farscape webisodes are being made at the moment, which is cool).

Looking forward to those.

And don't worry, I know you're not judging (too much), Kegek. I'm just kicking myself for not being able to kick the Stargate brand 3-4 years past its prime.

I was in exactly that position with Enterprise, so I know how you feel.

 

[Frontier]

Have you seen "Pineapple Express"?

No. I avoid movies like that. To be perfectly honest, the great bulk of comedy films over the past decade have been far too dependent upon crude and tasteless humor that appeals to the lowest common denominator. Oh there are a few gem moments in each, I'm sure. There might be some good lines, some good acting, et cetera. I don't think all comedy films in the "Something About Mary" / "40 Year Old Virgin" / "Harold and Kumar" / "Knocked Up" are all horrible. But I do think that rather than rely upon wit and actual humor, the majority of comedy films of recent years have been founded upon crudeness and low-brow material for the majority of their success. And that simply does not appeal to me. If it where part of the film, ok. If it where balanced. But too many films have become too reliant on drug jokes, crude sex jokes, bodily function jokes, et cetera. I just can't find that thing funny but for a one-time-only chuckle.

The only recent film that I can recall off the top of my head that was balanced in such a manner was that one a year or two who, when Will Farrell didn't play a moron for a change. He was an IRS guy, and Maggie Gyllenhaal was his love interest? That was, while far from a great film, at least something I could watch, laugh at here and there, and not be embarrased or ashamed of myself for doing so. To be honest though, I'm a drama man. I like action as well, but there has to be substance. A film like "Starship Troopers" or when the Rock remade "Walking Tall" just doesn't do it for me. It's got to have some substance to the action. "The Rock" with Cage and Connerry, "Face Off" with Travolta and Cage, and "The Negotiator" with Spacy and Jackson and so on. Action-dramas rather than pure action. But that's off in a whole other direction. End of the day I don't find films in the vein of "Pineapple Express" to be truly intelligent films that I can watch more than once, or laugh at more than once. Those type of films make me feel bad about myself for partially enjoying them that one time I watch them. I like films I can watch again and again, enjoy again and again, and not feel my IQ drop with said repeat viewings.

I can understand why some people don't buy into the reasoning that if a movie makes tons of money it must be good.

But I can't understand why those same people arrogantly assume that if a person doesn't like some "classic" or "important" "film" they are morons. Yeah that is much more logical reasoning than buying into hype.

Personally, I don't get that either. You know, a lot of classic films are, in my mind, just old. I can't watch "Casablanca" or such. It's too dated. I can respect it as a classic, but I don't truly 'like' the film. And that doesn't make me less intelligent. Nor does it make anyone else. It doesn't make someone less intelligent just to enjoy films I might consider 'stupid' either. Like "Pineapple Express". If you like that, that's fine. I'd only ever think someone was of questionable intelligence if that was ALL they liked, lol. If they thought "There's Something About Mary" was the greatest film ever made or something. It's fine to enjoy a "dumb" film - the film being dumb, not the person watching it. Just so long as that's not your entire portfolio of experience with films. But not liking a classic doesn't make you "dumb" either. Films don't make people dumb, nor does liking or disliking them. You've got to be dumb first, lol - at which point that can sometimes be evidenced in the films you like or dislike. I've known people who think any film that makes you think or feel anything but horny and amused is stupid and lame. That's because that person is dumb, though. Nothing to do with what they like or dislike.

 

[Kegek]

^
Well, it does raise the question by what criterion we agree that a movie is good. Box office? Critical response? Cult success? In a sense, all of those and none of those. There isn't a film regarded as good that someone doesn't dislike. What a good film is, ultimately, is very subjective: It depends on what you want from films and which films deliver to your various cinematic desires.

No. I avoid movies like that. To be perfectly honest, the great bulk of comedy films over the past decade have been far too dependent upon crude and tasteless humor that appeals to the lowest common denominator.

Agreed. Have you seen Thank You For Smoking? If not, I recommend it. It's precisely the kind of acerbic, wit-driven comedy Hollywood needs more of. (Kegek is aware this is the millionth time he's mentioned this movie. He promises to stop now.)

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Thank You For Smoking is great. And there's a TDK connection given its leading man!

 

[JacksonArcher]

There's also a Batman Begins connection given its (supporting?) woman.

 

[Frontier]

Well, it does raise the question by what criterion we agree that a movie is good. Box office? Critical response? Cult success? In a sense, all of those and none of those. There isn't a film regarded as good that someone doesn't dislike. What a good film is, ultimately, is very subjective: It depends on what you want from films and which films deliver to your various cinematic desires.

Agreed. Have you seen Thank You For Smoking? If not, I recommend it. It's precisely the kind of acerbic, wit-driven comedy Hollywood needs more of. (Kegek is aware this is the millionth time he's mentioned this movie. He promises to stop now.)

I think a film can be considered to be good when it has good people response. Critics be damned, box office be damned. Those are subjective. When a film is enjoyed by 80% of the people who see it or more, when those people watch it again over their life time, and when they talk about it beyond the day they saw it... that's good in my opinion. Having critical, box office, or cult success might add to it, but it's not the substance. TDK is one of the few films to have ALL of it, though. People, critics, money, cult status... which is just a big strong flashing neon sign that says "GOOD MOVIE" imho. When the people agree in large quantity, that's enough. When all the factors align? That's special.

Indeed I have seen Thank You For Smoking. Loved it. It's why I didn't go "Him? As Dent?" when they cast Aaron Eckhart. I knew from that film alone he could pull it off. It's like Bale in either Equilibrium or American Psycho. You could just tell from either film he could pull off Bruce and Bats from it.

 

[Kegek]

I think a film can be considered to be good when it has good people response.

I think that's subject to the same scrutiny as box office, critics, cult success, etc. People agreeing in quantity is just another form of broadly shared opinion - it's every bit as subjective.

Indeed I have seen Thank You For Smoking. Loved it. It's why I didn't go "Him? As Dent?" when they cast Aaron Eckhart. I knew from that film alone he could pull it off.

Yep. It was easily my favourite casting nugget regarding the picture.

 

[T'Baio]

Have you seen "Pineapple Express"?

No.

Regardless of the rest of your answer, I wonder how you would respond to someone who judged The Dark Knight without seeing it? Say...by saying they don't like comic book movies? Honestly...

 

[chrisspringob]

With Tuesday's number, Dark Knight is now up to $448.9 million:

http://www.showbizdata.com/dailybox.cfm

That puts it ahead of the inflation-adjusted gross of Burton's 1989 Batman movie. So now the all time highest grossing superhero movies, adjusted for inflation are:

1) Spider-Man
2) The Dark Knight
3) Batman (1989)
4) Spider-Man 2
5) Superman

Dark Knight is basically a lock to surpass Spider-Man and become #1.