What were the original plans for Guinan in TNG?

[XCV330]

I always assumed that for whatever reason she was somewhat immune from Q's powers and perhaps somehow a danger to him, without having Q-like power herself.

I got that feeling too. He definately knew of her and was not comfortable about her. Then again the Sisko once punched him, and he did not retaliate as well. In retrospect (ret-cons nicely) he did know who he was boxing with. It could be said he stopped harassing the Prophets' kid because it wasn't as much fun as bullying Q, but maybe it was also a bit of a diplomatic or strategic bad idea.

Guinan, there's a lot we don't know about her, and it will be interesting to see if we find out in the next Picard season what the deal was between her and Q, and that gesture.

 

[Ragitsu]

Sisko punching Q was monumentally stupid.

 

[Orphalesion]

She does have the ability to sense when something is off in timeline, so she probably has the ability to sniff out any illusions or fake worlds/scenarios Q creates.
Some of Q's hi-jinks in the first season probably wouldn't have been so impressive if Guinan had sat in the corner and been like "yeah, it's all fake!"
Then again, Picard seems to have gotten wise to Q by Season 2 as well; in Q Who he asks Q whether their encounter with the Borg and the death of those crewmembers was a part of Q's illusions.

Maybe she isn't just immune to his powers, but can generally disrupt them.

Is it refreshing or depressing to know that some of the fiction we greatly cherish (or at least specific elements of that fiction) wasn't planned far in advance?

I say it's nice. It means everything can grow into something great.

 

[Danja]

Then came Generations... The moment Braga and Moore had to sincerely commit and define what the rules of Guinan's powers were, and they were underwhelming.

Berman definitely had issues with powerful women (Janeway came off as a raving lunatic. Seven was jammed into that corset and catsuit for the male gaze. Tasha Yar and Jadzia were both killed off.)

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Berman definitely had issues with powerful women (Janeway came off as a raving lunatic. Seven was jammed into that corset and catsuit for the male gaze. Tasha Yar and Jadzia were both killed off.)

You know, the details may be lost to time. But I seem to recall that it was Jeri Taylor's idea to put Seven in a catsuit. This after she pushed for Deanna Troi to wear a proper uniform on TNG.

 

[Danja]

You know, the details may be lost to time. But I seem to recall that it was Jeri Taylor's idea to put Seven in a catsuit. This after she pushed for Deanna Troi to wear a proper uniform on TNG.

From what I've read, Berman wanted a "babe" (his words).

Exhibit A: He tried to clone Seven on Enterprise with T'Pol (and failed spectacularly).

 

[Ragitsu]

He tried to clone Seven on Enterprise with T'Pol (and failed spectacularly).

In regards to looks/sex appeal, stoicism, character development, outside perspective, or something else altogether?

 

[Danja]

In regards to looks/sex appeal, stoicism, character development, outside perspective, or something else altogether?

Primarily looks/sex appeal (heavy on the T&A) and stoicism.

Character development? There wasn't any (outside of her having a fling with Trip). She just came off as a frosty Vulcan and a poor attempt to copy Seven of Nine.

Seven had a reason for her behavior (she was a Commander who'd suffered a fall).

 

[M.A.C.O.]

From what I've read, Berman wanted a "babe" (his words).

Exhibit A: He tried to clone Seven on Enterprise with T'Pol (and failed spectacularly).

Of course. I remember those rumblings. Jennifer Lien's long haired Kes was beauty. Drop Kim and we could've had two beautiful blondes on the show.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

If i remember correctly the term "continuum" was used in "Encounter at Farpoint", but i am not sure about it. But he talked about the Q in plural in that episode.

Q: Thou are notified that thy kind hath infiltrated the galaxy too far already. Thou art directed to return to thine own solar system immediately.

PICARD: That's quite a directive. Would you mind identifying what you are?

Q: We call ourselves the Q. Or thou mayst call me that. It's all much the same thing.

The word "continuum" is not in the script at all, but clearly Q hints that there are many of them that exist as a kind of collective.

Maybe the Q were originally supposed to come in pairs of good and evil. Guinan is the Angel sitting on Picard's shoulder, while Q is the Devil (or vice versa...).

 

[Ragitsu]

Primarily looks/sex appeal (heavy on the T&A) and stoicism.

Character development? There wasn't any (outside of her having a fling with Trip). She just came off as a frosty Vulcan and a poor attempt to copy Seven of Nine.

Seven had a reason for her behavior (she was a Commander who'd suffered a fall).

I wasn't keen on them characterizing her - a Vulcan - via UNCONTROLLABLE EMOTIONS (how very original). Star Trek typically has two settings for Surak's descendants: object of humor or playground for uninhibited impulses.

Of course. I remember those rumblings. Jennifer Lien's long haired Kes was beauty. Drop Kim and we could've had two beautiful blondes on the show.

Naomi grew up to become quite the Ktarian Chocolate Puff (an alternative future where Icheb is still alive, by the way...).

 

[Danja]

I wasn't keen on them characterizing her - a Vulcan - via UNCONTROLLABLE EMOTIONS (how very original).

Oh, no ... nothing exploitive here :

 

[Ragitsu]

Oh, no ... nothing exploitive here :

To me, Mirror T'Pol resembled an elf. Y'know...a proper fantasy elf and not the typical "space elf' the Vulcans grew into.

 

[Danja]

I'm not sure there was a "plan". Whoopi asked for a role on TNG. They decided to build a bar and make her centuries old near-human alien who likes to listen and impart wisdom, and just have her pop up in scenes across episodes when she was available.

Every season, they asked the question, "How do we fill our order of 22 (eps)?"

 

[Orphalesion]

Berman definitely had issues with powerful women (Janeway came off as a raving lunatic. Seven was jammed into that corset and catsuit for the male gaze. Tasha Yar and Jadzia were both killed off.)

I agree on the others, but Tasha seems to have been on Crosby leaving and Roddenberry both wanting to kill a character off and feeling that three women (out of a cast of nine characters) was, somehow, "too many".

 

[CorporalCaptain]

In "Q Who," Q called Guinan and "imp" and a "creature" who's not what she appears to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imp

 

[Pikirk_Janesisko]

I liked that she was rather mysterious, specially with her relationship with Picard. "Time's Arrow" was the episode that really disappointed me in regards to that.

 

[dupersuper]

Seven had a reason for her behavior (she was a Commander who'd suffered a fall).

When was 7 a commander?

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Q: We call ourselves the Q. Or thou mayst call me that. It's all much the same thing.

The word "continuum" is not in the script at all, but clearly Q hints that there are many of them that exist as a kind of collective.

Indeed.

The Continuum wasn't mentioned by name until Hide and Q later in the season.

 

[Danja]

When was 7 a commander?

In "Survival Instinct" (VOY), she commanded troops.

She was a bigshot. She had the ear of the Borg Queen. When she was severed from the Collective, she took a fall.