What We Left Behind - Documentary Update Confirms *Some* HD Remastering

[Jayson1]

You would think that their would be somekind of organzation that feels they need to preserve old movies and tv shows for artistic reasons. Isn't that why the government includes some movies in a archive. I forget what it's called but I recall reading something about it when "The Terminator" was included.

Jason

 

[DS9forever]

The National Film Registry of the Library of Congress.

 

[Jayson1]

Yep that is it. You would think they might feel it is important to try and preserve old tv shows and movies of note which IMO would be any old tv show or movie because they are all links to the past.

Jason

 

[ATimson]

Preserving it would mean preserving it in its current SD format. Any sort of an HD version would be a change to it. A welcome enhancement, but arguably the exact opposite of what an institution like that would want.

 

[Jonesy]

Not a very 'businesslike' view but why would it need to make a profit ?

Because they're running a business. Paramount/CBS/Viacom (whomever owns it now) is into it all to make bank. They're not going to enter into a project with the idea that they may only just break even.

I think that if TNG remastered was even modestly successful (as in making a decent profit) DS9 and Voyager remastering projects would've gone into gear pretty quickly. A business is not going to leave $ on the table when it's there for the taking.

 

[Jonesy]

You think CBS is a charity? They're a company, they have stockholders who want dividends. Stockholders can sue, and sometimes win, lawsuits against directors for not doing their utmost to make money.

Agreed. Fans can look upon the situation as, "Remastering is the right thing to do." And in an ideal (and ultimately philanthropic) sense, it is right to remaster and restore everything in a studios catalog. Businesses don't survive by making decisions (with ample evidence) that are likely to be financially risky or just..bad. They put their employees and resources into projects that are likely to be successful.

 

[Jayson1]

When where the "TNG" shows remastered? I was thinking that maybe the mindset might be different now because you can stream stuff on Netflix or Amazon Prime where you still see it in HD. You don't need to watch the TNG Blu-Rays to still see it in good quality.. DS9 though you can't see it in very good quality in either DVD or streaming. The selling point for DS9 BLu-Rays is, at least at first, would be that this would be the only place where you can watch a good copy of the show. TNG can't say that. Perhaps that could be how to make money. Refuse to release HD copies of the show for 3 to 5 years to streaming. I'm surprised studies haven't thought of this. Delayed HD steaming to prop of BLu-Ray sells. Granted this would really piss off places like Netflix and Amazon Prime but then again that means they would just double down on making their own stuff which I think is a good thing.

Jason

 

[ChristopherPike]

Enough time hasn't passed since TNG remastering project ended. Try another two or three and DS9-R will begin gearing up. TOS-R was 2006/7 during the 40th Anniversary. TNG-R 2013/14. It's business plan to pay for the work, and milk it through physical media, syndication and overseas revenues over a 7 year period. Then dig out the next spin-off and push that. 2020 is when we'll hear about this. Discovery will hopefully reach the peak of its popularity then. They'll be Star Trek 14 in cinemas and firm news about whatever the already greenlit 15 QT wants to write. DS9-R will be riding on the back of that. You'll see...

...or maybe I'm just feeling more positive than usual, because the sun's out while I'm typing this.

 

[Relayer1]

Agreed. Fans can look upon the situation as, "Remastering is the right thing to do." And in an ideal (and ultimately philanthropic) sense, it is right to remaster and restore everything in a studios catalog. Businesses don't survive by making decisions (with ample evidence) that are likely to be financially risky or just..bad. They put their employees and resources into projects that are likely to be successful.

I realise that. It is not, however, unusual in business, to allocate unused resources to projects that will only cover costs, with the idea that it will keep those resources employed and at least paying for themselves, even if they do not return a profit. Staff, skills and equipment are that way maintained for more lucrative projects when they do come along.

I am not in a position to know if they have such spare capacity, but if they do indeed have such slack periods, a break even project like this that could be worked on when higher paying jobs are not available would make some commercial sense and result in a property of enhanced value.

 

[Jayson1]

Enough time hasn't passed since TNG remastering project ended. Try another two or three and DS9-R will begin gearing up. TOS-R was 2006/7 during the 40th Anniversary. TNG-R 2013/14. It's business plan to pay for the work, and milk it through physical media, syndication and overseas revenues over a 7 year period. Then dig out the next spin-off and push that. 2020 is when we'll hear about this. Discovery will hopefully reach the peak of its popularity then. They'll be Star Trek 14 in cinemas and firm news about whatever the already greenlit 15 QT wants to write. DS9-R will be riding on the back of that. You'll see...

...or maybe I'm just feeling more positive than usual, because the sun's out while I'm typing this.

I have hopes for this but I am going to be pissed of they do "Voyager" before "DS9." I do think "Voyager" should also get to be in HD as well but it needs to wait it's turn. "DS9" came first.


Jason

 

[Firebird]

Enough time hasn't passed since TNG remastering project ended. Try another two or three and DS9-R will begin gearing up. TOS-R was 2006/7 during the 40th Anniversary. TNG-R 2013/14. It's business plan to pay for the work, and milk it through physical media, syndication and overseas revenues over a 7 year period.

This "business plan" is a fallacy.

Physical media is no longer a feasible market for classic titles; there's simply not a large enough consumer base for it like there is for recent releases. This is why boutique labels like Criterion, Kino Lorber, Olive, etc have prices so much higher than those from the main studios.

 

[Jayson1]

This "business plan" is a fallacy.

Physical media is no longer a feasible market for classic titles; there's simply not a large enough consumer base for it like there is for recent releases. This is why boutique labels like Criterion, Kino Lorber, Olive, etc have prices so much higher than those from the main studios.

I agree that it will become more of a niche thing. To me though that is something that is in DS9's favor. We might have to pay more but it is a kind of show that is going to make people want to buy more than something like old "Last Man and Standing" discs or "Mom" discs or any kind of generic type of shows that network tv shows all the time. Sci-FI and stuff of that nature I think will be the things that still show profit in that market. If they can get us to buy all sorts of other merchandise then Blu-Rays would be one thing to get people to spend money. The fact that "DS9" wasn't a mainstream hit like TNG might even work in it's favor since in theory it will be harder to find in the future where as you expect TNG reruns will still be easy to find on streaming sites.

Jason

 

[kkt]

The expensive part will be the remastering in 4k with the effects. If they decide to do that, they'd be foolish not to release it both streaming and on discs.

 

[Jonesy]

This "business plan" is a fallacy.

Physical media is no longer a feasible market for classic titles; there's simply not a large enough consumer base for it like there is for recent releases. This is why boutique labels like Criterion, Kino Lorber, Olive, etc have prices so much higher than those from the main studios.

This is an excellent point too, and I bet this had something to do with why TNG didn't sell well. I don't think there are anywhere near as many people running out to buy Blu Rays (and players) as there were back in the heyday of DVD.

 

[Qonundrum]

This "business plan" is a fallacy.

Physical media is no longer a feasible market for classic titles; there's simply not a large enough consumer base for it like there is for recent releases. This is why boutique labels like Criterion, Kino Lorber, Olive, etc have prices so much higher than those from the main studios.

Not for any ol' general release.

Criterion charged more because they were known for some remastering and was THE name to look up back in the days of LaserDisc, where it all began. Not everybody cared for the picture quality, so Criterion and certain others stepped in. 30 years later, there are still similarities along with the differences. General viewers would complain about "high costs" but not understanding what goes into the process.

I agree with jayson1 above, a home video release WOULD cost more per disc, as a justifiable premium, and that's where hardcore fans will go. General viewers would obviously stick to renting and streaming (until they realize all the downsides of that, assuming the downsides get reasonably appropriately addressed and it's more than just a bandwidth issue) and, as ChristopherPike pointed out, it does take time to recoup all the costs. Even if TNG-R was an overnight hit (and I bet a number of people who sat through season 1 were living off of nostalgia and believed all 7 seasons were as (not good) as 1 was.)

And I'd rather purchase blu-ray sets than all those little plastic model ships and action figures, if a choice existed.

If nothing else, I'm grateful CBS allowed all 7 seasons of TNG to be remastered, rather than stopping in the middle. It's a big reason I pre-ordered and bought first day. And I'll admit, their season 3 advertising was pretty much the perfectly formed apology for the drek in season 1.

 

[BillJ]

TNG-R 2013/14.

The Next Level released on January 31st, 2012. With season one releasing in July 2012. Star Trek season three released on Blu-ray in December of 2009.

So there were two-and-a-half years between the two, not counting the sampler.

EDIT: It has been nearly three-and-a-half years since TNG season seven released (December 2nd, 2014 according to Amazon).

 

[Armus]

What ever happens with DS9 on disc, I really hope there remains a market for DVDs and blurays as I've resisted further dependence on the internet, via streaming and other infiltrations of the internet into home entertainment.

 

[BillJ]

What ever happens with DS9 on disc, I really hope there remains a market for DVDs and blurays as I've resisted further dependence on the internet, via streaming and other infiltrations of the internet into home entertainment.

I use and enjoy streaming, but the things I really love I like to have on disc.

 

[Mage]

I use and enjoy streaming, but the things I really love I like to have on disc.

Me too. And I doubt discs will completely disappear. Perhaps at some point, the option for legal downloading will become bigger and you can choose to put this legally downloaded file on a USB for safekeeping. I've had it happen once that I didn't have internet for a weekend, I was so happy I had a huge dvd/bluray collection to entertain me.

 

[Jonesy]

Not for any ol' general release.

Criterion charged more because they were known for some remastering and was THE name to look up back in the days of LaserDisc, where it all began. Not everybody cared for the picture quality, so Criterion and certain others stepped in. 30 years later, there are still similarities along with the differences. General viewers would complain about "high costs" but not understanding what goes into the process.

I grew up with laserdisc, and it beat the pants off of VHS soundly - even the non Criterion titles. I think the high cost of Criterions was at least partly due to the format not taking off anywhere near the same as VHS. There's a certain degree of economies of scale involved. If laserdisc had been even a modest hit, many of the Criterion titles would've had a kinder price. I remember the Criterion release of Lawrence of Arabia was shockingly expensive.

I agree with jayson1 above, a home video release WOULD cost more per disc, as a justifiable premium, and that's where hardcore fans will go. General viewers would obviously stick to renting and streaming (until they realize all the downsides of that, assuming the downsides get reasonably appropriately addressed and it's more than just a bandwidth issue) and, as ChristopherPike pointed out, it does take time to recoup all the costs. Even if TNG-R was an overnight hit (and I bet a number of people who sat through season 1 were living off of nostalgia and believed all 7 seasons were as (not good) as 1 was.)

There will always be enthusiasts for movies & tv shows. I think though in this day and age, it gets down to just how much money is involved in a particular project. The remastering project for TNG was $12 million IIRC, and required years and a team to put together. Of course, it had to do with the miles and miles and miles of footage that had to be found, cleaned, prepped, scanned, corrected, etc - not to mention the updated visual FX. It's a lot different to do that than scan a 2 hour movie for Criterion or any of the other boutique labels.