What was your favorite TNG film?
- Thread starter fonzob1
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GEN definitely could have used a rewrite.
Almost none of the TNG movies really played to the characters' strengths and backgrounds -- which is my primary gripe with them -- save INS, whose story and antagonists were pretty thoroughly underwhelming. (Thrill with horror as F. Murray Abraham gets... a face-lift! SRSLY?)
NEM gets a Mutara Nebula's more worth of crap than it really deserves. But it's not exactly a strong film, either, save the battle sequences, and Data's sacrifice at the end felt rather unearned and cheap.
Overall I have to go with First Contact. It has some problems -- I didn't care for the Borg Queen as an idea, though I have to give massive props to Alice Krige's ultra-creepy delivery; and the not-too-subtly-implied Picard / Ahab parallel is probably the most jarring retread of that idea passed down from TWOK, not excepting Nero in NuTrek -- but despite those flaws, it was in every other respect a solid, engaging and genuinely fun and thrilling outing, the biggest success in all those categories that the TNG crew got and actually my third-favourite film in the whole franchise, behind TWOK and TVH. (EDIT: Oh, and James Cromwell as Zephram Cohcrane was absolutely inspired.)
NEM gets a Mutara Nebula's more worth of crap than it really deserves. But it's not exactly a strong film, either, save the battle sequences, and Data's sacrifice at the end felt rather unearned and cheap.
Overall I have to go with First Contact. It has some problems -- I didn't care for the Borg Queen as an idea, though I have to give massive props to Alice Krige's ultra-creepy delivery; and the not-too-subtly-implied Picard / Ahab parallel is probably the most jarring retread of that idea passed down from TWOK, not excepting Nero in NuTrek -- but despite those flaws, it was in every other respect a solid, engaging and genuinely fun and thrilling outing, the biggest success in all those categories that the TNG crew got and actually my third-favourite film in the whole franchise, behind TWOK and TVH. (EDIT: Oh, and James Cromwell as Zephram Cohcrane was absolutely inspired.)
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Nemesis....just edging out First Contact.
I agree that the TNG movies were lacking something overall, but I am on the other side of the coin when it comes to FC and NEM. NEM had far less problems than FC to me. I mean right from the start of FC, the Borg's time travel? If the Borg can travel in time, everyone is F'd anyhow. What is to stop the Borg from traveling back in time when the Enterprise is not there to follow them? Using time travel so loosely as a plot device is weak.
^ I had mixed feelings about the time travel thing. On the one hand it made perfect sense to me that the Borg would have time-travel -- it doesn't make sense that the Federation would be the only people able to figure that out -- but OTOH yeah, it was an overused device of the Bermaga Era and you reeeeaaaaally have to squint to avoid the full implications.
I voted for First Contact. Battling the Borg on the big screen is what we wanted to see.
I liked Generations but the pointless destruction of the Enterprise-D and the way Kirk died let it down badly.
Insurrection was more like an average TNG episode, not necessary a bad thing but not good enough for a big budget movie.
Nemises has grown on me over the years although it's still a crap send off for the TNG!
I liked Generations but the pointless destruction of the Enterprise-D and the way Kirk died let it down badly.
Insurrection was more like an average TNG episode, not necessary a bad thing but not good enough for a big budget movie.
Nemises has grown on me over the years although it's still a crap send off for the TNG!
With all respect, it was a battle I also waited a long time to see, and it was over in two minutes, in the first ten minutes of the ep--er, I mean.....movie. That's my big problem with First Contact...it blew its wad and fizzled out from there.
One of the reasons I liked Nemesis over all the other TNG eps...er...movies...is that the big battle took up just about the entire last half of the movie...and it went hog wild on actual battle shots, not descriptive dialogue and an over abundance of internal shots vs external space battle shots. A much more satisfying space battle experience. Generations', First Contact's, and Insurrection's conflicts were too much like what we'd see in a typical episode....two or three effects shots of the battle, and mostly just descriptive dialogue, panels exploding, and ship shaking.
But, that said, despite my love for Nemesis, I also strongly acknowledge its flaws...of which there are many.
It was a battle I also waited a long time to see, and it was over in two minutes, in the first ten minutes of the ep--er, I mean.....movie. That's my big problem with First Contact...it blew its wad and fizzled out from there.
One of the reasons I liked Nemesis over all the other TNG eps...er...movies...is that the big battle took up just about the entire last half of the movie...and it went hog wild on actual battle shots, not intercessive dialogue. A much more satisfying space battle experience.
But, that said, despite my love for Nemesis, I also strongly acknowledge its flaws...of which there are many.
I know what you mean about the battle scenes in both movies, First Contact would have been better with another or longer space battle and as for Nemises, unfortunately the space battle's were the only thing I like about that film.
The cliche of TNG movies being sub-par is almost as tired as bashing nu-Trek for mindless action and canon violations. But, it is true. The TNG movies were lukewarm at best. The characters and tone of that series did not translate to the spectacle / adventure format that 1990's moviegoers demanded.
I think that the TNG movies that did the best to not be embarrassing "long episodes" were FC and NEM. FC probably slightly edges NEM in my opinion, but not by much.
1. FC- While this film had it's share of lazy contrivances, plot holes, and crappy storytelling decisions (not to mention some of it is a beat-by-beat ripoff of Aliens), it has a tight style, excellent soundtrack, decent special effects and the best guest cast of all the films. The three different stories are interwoven very tightly (Picard on Enterprise, Cochrane on Earth, Data and Queen). Picard and Lilley's relationship is very well executed and believable, and the payoff is tremendous. The battle with the Borg cube was one of the most disappointing sequences in the entire film franchise, playing more like a quick PS2 cutscene than an epic space battle.
2. NEM- While NEM may be a shitbucket of inconsistencies and illogic at times, at least it was a bold attempt at something cinematic, tense and meaningful. I respond to "bold attempts that fail" much more favorably than the "play it safe" routine. I thought, unlike most others, that this served as a very fitting send-off...with the crew on the verge of splitting up, locked in one final life-or-death struggle together. The themes of family and "nature vs. nurture" were classic TNG. The action / adventure was very good (for a Trek movie) and entertained well, despite the flaws. Data's death was a fine idea, but executed badly.
3. GEN- I've lightened up on GEN over the past few years. This really isn't a bad movie. It's just far from a good one. It looks gorgeous, has a decent soundtrack, and the magic between Picard and Kirk is worth the price of a ticket. Unfortunately, the plot is so bogus and contrived (Nexus plot device phenomenon, anyone?) that it's hard to not recognize how the last 1/3 of the movie just cartwheels out of control very quickly. Still, seeing the captains on screen together, the opening 15 mins, and the saucer crash are all amongst some of the most memorable sequences in the whole franchise. Still, overall, it is a disappointing mess.
4. INS- This is actually the only Trek film that I actively dislike. It always amazes me when people rank any of the films in the series lower than this one. INS was the biggest, most expensive waste of time in the entire franchise. While films like TFF and NEM were "glorious failures" for at least attempting something bold and different, INS was made with such explicit expectations of mediocrity that it boggles the mind as to how the script or story were ever green-lighted. Besides some competent direction and gorgeous on-location shooting...there is absolutely nothing of note or interest in this film. People say (speaking of cliches) that it's "nothing more than a long TV episode." I expand on that by saying it's nothing more than a lousy 1-hour episode that cost over $50M to make. That's the true sin of INS...that it is a multi-million dollar major motion picture that was small and insignificant at best. Quite truthfully, the 7th season episodes "Homeward" and "Journey's End" handle similar themes and story lines better, and those episodes are mediocre at best. Utterly forgettable dross.
I think that the TNG movies that did the best to not be embarrassing "long episodes" were FC and NEM. FC probably slightly edges NEM in my opinion, but not by much.
1. FC- While this film had it's share of lazy contrivances, plot holes, and crappy storytelling decisions (not to mention some of it is a beat-by-beat ripoff of Aliens), it has a tight style, excellent soundtrack, decent special effects and the best guest cast of all the films. The three different stories are interwoven very tightly (Picard on Enterprise, Cochrane on Earth, Data and Queen). Picard and Lilley's relationship is very well executed and believable, and the payoff is tremendous. The battle with the Borg cube was one of the most disappointing sequences in the entire film franchise, playing more like a quick PS2 cutscene than an epic space battle.
2. NEM- While NEM may be a shitbucket of inconsistencies and illogic at times, at least it was a bold attempt at something cinematic, tense and meaningful. I respond to "bold attempts that fail" much more favorably than the "play it safe" routine. I thought, unlike most others, that this served as a very fitting send-off...with the crew on the verge of splitting up, locked in one final life-or-death struggle together. The themes of family and "nature vs. nurture" were classic TNG. The action / adventure was very good (for a Trek movie) and entertained well, despite the flaws. Data's death was a fine idea, but executed badly.
3. GEN- I've lightened up on GEN over the past few years. This really isn't a bad movie. It's just far from a good one. It looks gorgeous, has a decent soundtrack, and the magic between Picard and Kirk is worth the price of a ticket. Unfortunately, the plot is so bogus and contrived (Nexus plot device phenomenon, anyone?) that it's hard to not recognize how the last 1/3 of the movie just cartwheels out of control very quickly. Still, seeing the captains on screen together, the opening 15 mins, and the saucer crash are all amongst some of the most memorable sequences in the whole franchise. Still, overall, it is a disappointing mess.
4. INS- This is actually the only Trek film that I actively dislike. It always amazes me when people rank any of the films in the series lower than this one. INS was the biggest, most expensive waste of time in the entire franchise. While films like TFF and NEM were "glorious failures" for at least attempting something bold and different, INS was made with such explicit expectations of mediocrity that it boggles the mind as to how the script or story were ever green-lighted. Besides some competent direction and gorgeous on-location shooting...there is absolutely nothing of note or interest in this film. People say (speaking of cliches) that it's "nothing more than a long TV episode." I expand on that by saying it's nothing more than a lousy 1-hour episode that cost over $50M to make. That's the true sin of INS...that it is a multi-million dollar major motion picture that was small and insignificant at best. Quite truthfully, the 7th season episodes "Homeward" and "Journey's End" handle similar themes and story lines better, and those episodes are mediocre at best. Utterly forgettable dross.
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I'm not surprised that First Contact is winning in a landslide, as it is the most complete and enjoyable of the TNG films, with great action, effects, story, and humor. I am surprised however that Nemesis is beating out Generations. While it is better than Insurrection(the worst of them), Generations is ahead of Nemesis in my ranking.
I am not surprised either, but I don't get it. First Contact's story and acting was terrible. It's a terrible movie. lol
It is a shame these polls aren't sophisticated enough to do preferential voting (i.e. voting in order of preference). If the other films we like but can't quite vote as number one were still counted, the differences might not be so stark.
Before I say how I voted, I should explain that I did not like TNG, the TV show. Generally, the tone was smug, the pace was plodding, and the stories often stupid ("Oirish in Space" was on last night). The movies mostly managed to avoid these problems by cutting back on pontification, technobabble, and patronising moral discussions. And simply having the budget to "open up" the scope of the show, i.e. use locations or genuinely interesting new sets, and feature more action, also helped.
My favourite of the moment is NEM. This might partly be the afterglow of discovering this movie's virtues in the past few months, but at the moment it's number one. I am fond of parts of GEN. FC has dropped over the years, but I still enjoy the bits set on Earth. INS is the only one I really dislike, because it has the negative qualities of TNG mentioned above. Also, Picard's cheesy romance.
Before I say how I voted, I should explain that I did not like TNG, the TV show. Generally, the tone was smug, the pace was plodding, and the stories often stupid ("Oirish in Space" was on last night). The movies mostly managed to avoid these problems by cutting back on pontification, technobabble, and patronising moral discussions. And simply having the budget to "open up" the scope of the show, i.e. use locations or genuinely interesting new sets, and feature more action, also helped.
My favourite of the moment is NEM. This might partly be the afterglow of discovering this movie's virtues in the past few months, but at the moment it's number one. I am fond of parts of GEN. FC has dropped over the years, but I still enjoy the bits set on Earth. INS is the only one I really dislike, because it has the negative qualities of TNG mentioned above. Also, Picard's cheesy romance.
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FC easily.
The rest of them are easily inferior to FC.
I have not seen Insurrection since 1998 in the theater, so I would want to revisit the film before I discuss it at length or re-commit to a negative review, but my memory of the film is that it wasn't too good.
Nemesis has some cool themes, but it has a tired, out of gas feel to the whole thing.
Generations is probably the most frustrating because there are glimmers of greatness and you can some great ingredients in the mix, but it was totally half-baked.
The rest of them are easily inferior to FC.
I have not seen Insurrection since 1998 in the theater, so I would want to revisit the film before I discuss it at length or re-commit to a negative review, but my memory of the film is that it wasn't too good.
Nemesis has some cool themes, but it has a tired, out of gas feel to the whole thing.
Generations is probably the most frustrating because there are glimmers of greatness and you can some great ingredients in the mix, but it was totally half-baked.
It was a battle I also waited a long time to see, and it was over in two minutes, in the first ten minutes of the ep--er, I mean.....movie. That's my big problem with First Contact...it blew its wad and fizzled out from there.
One of the reasons I liked Nemesis over all the other TNG eps...er...movies...is that the big battle took up just about the entire last half of the movie...and it went hog wild on actual battle shots, not intercessive dialogue. A much more satisfying space battle experience.
But, that said, despite my love for Nemesis, I also strongly acknowledge its flaws...of which there are many.
I know what you mean about the battle scenes in both movies, First Contact would have been better with another or longer space battle and as for Nemises, unfortunately the space battle's were the only thing I like about that film.
Aye, I had heard from some folks that the battle in FC (before its release) was supposed to be some 20 minutes long...and epic in scale....but, that obviously didn't pan out. As a story, FC has it all over Nemesis....they just blew their wad too early in FC.
About the only other thing I really liked more than the space battle in Nemesis was the Big E ramming the Scimitar. That scene alone was worth the price of admission, even if it was implausible and illogical, even for a Trek film.
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