What was the point in the 1701 refit?

[Deks]

It wasn't quite in service, more like preparing for its first shakedown cruises. The chief engineer had only just reported for duty.

But yes, it seemed clearly intended to replace the Constitution class as the backbone of the Starfleet. And boy, did that turn out to be a good move.



It's stated in dialogue that the Enterprise is just "a boatload of children." Spock himself states:



Now, that doesn't mean the Enterprise had been permanently assigned to the Academy as a training vessel. But at the beginning of TWOK, that was certainly her current assignment.

That could also mean that other ships in Starfleet (both new and old) could easily serve as training vessels at any time.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if most vessels in SF serve as training vessels for Academy students who excel initally, and are allowed to remain in the field to finish their training and get their commissions like that.

Uhura from SNW seems to be a good example of that already (and this is 10 years prior to TOS).

 

[yotsuya]

I've always thought that perhaps the Refit 1701 was a testbed for a lot of new technologies (the novel pretty much states this) and whilst these were successful, they were in prototype form. By the time of TWOK a lot of ships had either been refitted or built with the production versions of this tech and the Enterprise had been relegated to a training ship. Once she was damaged there wasn't any point spending resources on repairing her and given her age it would be better to decommission the ship.

The 1701-A is either an older ship refit with new tech or a new ship, Roddenberry apparently suggested it was the Yorktown and this ship is seen in Trek IV being affected by the probe. Perhaps she was one of the last ships to be refitted and was on trials. On recovering the ship it could have been hastily renamed Enterprise and re-numbered. Either way it was decommissioned after the events of Trek VI around seven years later.

Now why was it decommissioned so soon? If it was the Yorktown then perhaps she had actually been refitted not long after the Enterprise refit and was getting a bit long in the tooth. Perhaps she was now structurally compromised given the damage she received in VI and with a reduced Klingon threat fewer ships were needed (this could apply to a refit ship or a relatively new one). Perhaps she reverted to her original name leaving the name Enterprise free for a new ship.

It doesn't necessarily follow that just because some ships of a class have been decommissioned the other members of the class are obsolete. Take the Burke class destroyer. They have been in production for 30+ years and will probably be built for another 10 at least. With the initial ships likely to be decommissioned after 45 years service that means that when the Burke goes to the scrapyard some of her sisters will be virtually new ships. Block obsolescence is something we're used to because of the large number of ships built to fight two world wars and the need to replace those ships in a hurry in the 60s and 70s. But it no longer applies and it's actually better to have a rolling programme of replacements. The Constitution class may have served into the Next Gen timeframe we just never saw them (apart from a secondary hull in BoBW). It's likely however given what we see that once the Excelsior class went into full production, fewer of them were built, unlike the Miranda class which may have been selected as an easier design to make (it's more compact and could be built in smaller facilities perhaps).

I totally discount what Roddenberry said. Star Trek V made it very clear from what Scotty said that the 1701-A is a new ship. If it was an old ship damaged by the probe, the dialog would indicate that. Instead he calls it a new ship and insults the builders.

But I totally agree with what you say that it was a testbed. That also makes the radiation suits make sense. Plus, the refit has an exposed warp core where the TOS did not. And after more than a decade in service after the refit, she is reduced to a training ship. With her command crew aging and now moving on, this makes sense. Use their experience to train cadets. A job where Spock is very willing to take command. He is not so keen on commanding during active duty.

And for 1701-A we see the Constellation/Galaxy style warp core. This indicates and upgrade from what the 1701 refit had. A more shirt-sleeve environment like the TOS ship. That puts the refit in a different context as a test bed for new tech. That is something the ends up benefitting the entire fleet. It is a step towards the ships that come after. And with the classes that show up just after, they all endure for a long time. So in my view the 1701 refit was a big success and the ship went on to serve actively for years before becoming a training ship. There is more than a decade between TMP and TWOK (in story terms put in our calendar years, TMP takes place in 1972 and TWOK in 1985)

 

[STEPhon IT]

How so?

Its called "Special Effects". One movie had the 20 year old move slow, contrast to V and VI the new and improved appeared faster visually. See the movies to compare, its not that hard.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall anything from canon (TV shows or movies) saying the Enterprise was designated as a vessel for trainees.

As far as I recall, this notion was entertained by unconfirmed sources, but officially (from canon point of view), I don't recall anything being said that confirmed this.

So in other words you didn't understand the Enterprise's role in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan or The Search for Spock.

That could also mean that other ships in Starfleet (both new and old) could easily serve as training vessels at any time.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if most vessels in SF serve as training vessels for Academy students who excel initally, and are allowed to remain in the field to finish their training and get their commissions like that.

Uhura from SNW seems to be a good example of that already (and this is 10 years prior to TOS).

That could also mean??? LOL! Wow. Did the movie TWOK make these other speculative assumptions? The movie states the Enterprise's designation quite clearly.

 

[publiusr]

The B-52 will easily turn 100:
https://www.airforcemag.com/article/new-power-for-the-b-52/

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Its called "Special Effects". One movie had the 20 year old move slow, contrast to V and VI the new and improved appeared faster visually. See the movies to compare, its not that hard.

I asked because I wanted to hear your opinion, but thanks for being patronising and rude instead.

 

[Therin of Andor]

The 1701 Refit was destroyed in TSFS - before then it wasn't a museum piece (at least I don't recall the movies mentioning anyhing about that). It was just sitting in space dock and then SF decided not to repair it or put it back into action.

We don't know for certain if the 1701-A as seen in TVH was a completely new Constitution class ship or another rundown Connie that was refit... but I got the impression it was brand new that because of that it was also untested and had many problems.

The first book to tackle an explanation was "Mr Scott's Guide to the Enterprise" (non canon, of course). The author, Shane Johnson (now known as Lora Johnson) suggested, IIRC, that the USS Ti-Ho was the first scratch-built Constitution II Class (now Enterprise Class) vessel. All the other ships in this class had been overhauled in the same way as the USS Enterprise and other surviving Constitution Class TOS vessels.

Not long after its publication, Richard Arnold was talking about Gene Roddenberry's own theory at conventions and in "Star Trek Communicator". GR had not liked much of "Mr Scott's Guide to the Enterprise". Instead, he floated the idea that the ship unveiled as the USS Enterprise-A at the end of ST IV had been a last-minute rename of the USS Yorktown, taking the name from his own first Star Trek proposal. But then it was pointed out by fans that we had just seen the captain (former tennis pro turned actor, Vijay Amritraj, as Captain Joel Randolph) of a Yorktown reporting on his ship's disabling by the Probe, and hope to return to base with a solar sail, so there was no time for the new "-A" to be a refit of that particular ship. So again, more likely that the intended "Yorktown-A" was a scratch-built replacement for the fleet and the old Yorktown was due to be decommissioned. Hence his operative problems (mainly for comedy) in ST V.

Re the "20 years old" quote about the Enterprise of "ST III: The Search for Spock. This was a last-minute script correction. Starlog's ST III Official Magazine had a quote from an earlier transcript that actually said "40 years". Supposedly the "20 years" reference in the movie was to acknowledge the approach of the 20th anniversary of TOS, for which Paramount had big plans. (Any fan who saw "The Cage" and "The Menagerie" knew that the Enterprise was closer to 40 than 20. On a technicality, most of the ships parts were probably 20 years old, since it would have undergone a refit between Pike and Kirk's tenures.)

 

[yotsuya]

Re the "20 years old" quote about the Enterprise of "ST III: The Search for Spock. This was a last-minute script correction. Starlog's ST III Official Magazine had a quote from an earlier transcript that actually said "40 years". Supposedly the "20 years" reference in the movie was to acknowledge the approach of the 20th anniversary of TOS, for which Paramount had big plans. (Any fan who saw "The Cage" and "The Menagerie" knew that the Enterprise was closer to 40 than 20. On a technicality, most of the ships parts were probably 20 years old, since it would have undergone a refit between Pike and Kirk's tenures.)

Just using TOS sources, TWOK is 15 years after Space Seed, which is late first season and the mid first season episode The Menagerie has Spock serving 13 years before with Pike. Adding in time for Captain April from the TAS finale, you have at least 30 years. so the 20 is off from the outset and shows a lack of inclusion of The Menagerie. And with that episode also having Spock serving with Pike for 11 years and part of that 13 years before, and Pike picking Kirk, that means Kirk came on at least 2 years before The Menagerie. His helps set the timeline of TMP and the refit. If you include TAS, you have a little over 3 years toward the end of Kirk's five year mission. So TMP takes place about 3 years after season 3 of TOS.

 

[Unicron]

Yeah, that makes a lot more sense if you ignore the revamp and pretend the Enterprise is a fifty-year-old ship. As does the decision to decommission it in TSFS. Of course, Morrow's line is that she's "twenty years old", which doesn't seem all that old for a starship. Hell, my car is more than twenty years old.

For my part, I get what the writers were going for with that line (a nod to the then 20th anniversary of Star Trek), but it does sound goofy in context. I sometimes find it easier to assume Morrow was only talking about decommissioning the Enterprise specifically, on the basis of her seeming too old and having taken such a pounding from Khan.

 

[Mytran]

IMO:
The USS Enterprise rose to public prominence about 20 years before ST3, thanks to a particularly daring mission of galactic importance. From this point on, Enterprise became the figurehead ship of Starfleet.
20 years later the brass felt that Enterprise's day as a figurehead was over and positioned Excelsior to replace her
YMMV

 

[blssdwlf]

IMO:
The USS Enterprise rose to public prominence about 20 years before ST3, thanks to a particularly daring mission of galactic importance. From this point on, Enterprise became the figurehead ship of Starfleet.
20 years later the brass felt that Enterprise's day as a figurehead was over and positioned Excelsior to replace her
YMMV

Or what if Kirk's Enterprise from TOS really is only 20 years old? How's this for a timeline?
Year -6 Pike returns Enterprise but due to damage or fatigue she is decommissioned. Leila meets Spock (This Side of Paradise)
Year -5 Kirk takes command of new Enterprise. This Enterprise has newer tech that more than doubles crew capacity.
Year -3 Kirk takes Enterprise to Galactic Barrier (Where No Man Has Gone Before)
Year -2 Enterprise is refit, replacing bridge with offset main viewer with new Season 1 layout
Year 0 - Season 1 - Space Seed
Year 1 - Season 2
Year 2 - Season 3
Year 4 - End of 5 Year Mission.
Year 5 - Kirk promoted
Year 6 - Decker takes command of Enterprise as she undergoes redesign and refit
Year 7.5 - Kirk takes command. The Motion Picture
Year 15 - Spock is in command. Wrath of Khan
Year 15 - The Search for Spock
Year 27 - The Undiscovered Country

 

[STEPhon IT]

It seems the 20 year old Enterprise point of the refit was to be relegated as a monument, a historic vessel who passed its prime and was positioned for trainees to learn the ropes. TWOK pretty much established that.

 

[plynch]

Now that continuity of appearances does not matter (SNW E cf. TOS E), maybe the “refit” is basically how she “always” looked only she looked different to us in the 60s and early 70s?

Btw I much prefer Star Wars’ approach to visual continuity. It voids out the possibility I raised above.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

There's a picture of the Original Series version of the ship in TMP so the movie definitely implies it's changed appearance from the original look.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Now that continuity of appearances does not matter (SNW E cf. TOS E), maybe the “refit” is basically how she “always” looked only she looked different to us in the 60s and early 70s?

I can't find it online for the life of me, but I remember reading an article that the current iteration of something is the official version (until the next iteration comes along). In the case of the Enterprise, that would mean that the SNW version replaces the TOS version. The counterargument is that both are the same ship and it's really just a case that TOS was made in 1966 and SNW in 2022 and fans should just treat the situation as such.

That could extend to TMP as well in that the TOS Enterprise was upgraded and redesigned for that movie and subsequent films, and how she appears in SNW is a case of a separate production that doesn't need an in-universe explanation.

 

[Nightowl1701]

I said this quite a while back, but I guess it's worth bringing up again:

My in-universe take was that the '20 years' obliquely referred to Kirk being associated with the Enterprise, not a comment on the ship's actual age (which would be obviously wrong to any crew member hearing it, esp. Scotty). It was Morrow's veiled way of saying "Don't go thinking that because Spock's gone and that chair's now empty, you can start joyriding on this ship again. Your day is over."

 

[Forbin]

Maybe it's just that it was 20 years since the refit.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Maybe Admiral Morrow simply didn't know exactly how old the Enterprise was, but he did know Kirk took command of the ship around twenty years ago, and she definitely wasn't a spring chicken anymore. If we go with the idea that the Enterprise was assigned to cadet training duties at Starfleet Academy in TWOK, she may have already been considered in her twilight years even before the Battle of the Mutara Nebula.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

That does make sense. And it's not like Kirk was going to correct him and say "Actually it's twice as old as that," as that would only make the admiral more determined to drop it into the spaceship crusher.

 

[McCoy's Disco Collar]

My in-universe take was that the '20 years' obliquely referred to Kirk being associated with the Enterprise, not a comment on the ship's actual age (which would be obviously wrong to any crew member hearing it, esp. Scotty). It was Morrow's veiled way of saying "Don't go thinking that because Spock's gone and that chair's now empty, you can start joyriding on this ship again. Your day is over."

That doesn't really square with what Morrow says, though.

SCOTT: With all appreciation, sir, I'd prefer to supervise the refit of Enterprise.
MORROW: I'm afraid that won't be necessary.
SCOTT: But, sir...
MORROW: I'm sorry, Mister Scott, but there will be no refit.
KIRK: Admiral, I don't understand. The Enterprise is not...
MORROW: Jim, the Enterprise is twenty years old. We feel her day is over.

And in the scene with Kirk, Morrow doesn't seem to be particularly critical of Kirk. He's almost fawningly complimentary, calling Kirk the "best officer in the fleet" while explaining that the Enterprise cannot go to the Genesis Planet, partly because it wouldn't survive the trip.

I think maybe we can say the refit is 20 years old. Which kind of works with the established timeline.