What was Picard and Co. doing during the Dominion War?
- Thread starter c0rnedfr0g
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The captain of the Flagship was off fighting on the front lines, most likely, and not held back to a very secure planet no one assumed would be attacked anyways.
Withers
Captain
According to cannon Enterprise wasn't at any of the major engagements. (Those were all featured on DS9.) The absence of the Enterprise, however, speaks more to a lack of description in terms of where the war was fought aside those engagements we saw on screen.
We know there was a Romulan front but the battle there wasn't shown. We know there had to have been a Klingon front somewhere too but that also wasn't ever shown. I think it comes down to where things are in the Alpha/Beta Quadrant which differs depending on what source you cite/reference.
In my head I pretend Enterprise was busy doing the movie that came in between Insurrection and Nemesis and so couldn't be involved in the war.
-Withers-
DS9 didn't feature EVERY major engagement, just the ones important to Sisko and co (and a LOT of them happened off-screen) like Operation Return or the final battle.
The ENT-E was likely just fighting in one of those off-screen battles.
The real reason we never ever SAW them was because Paramount ordered that the Sovereign class vessel be used only in the movies.
The ENT-E was likely just fighting in one of those off-screen battles.
The real reason we never ever SAW them was because Paramount ordered that the Sovereign class vessel be used only in the movies.
Withers
Captain
That is the production reason and isn't in question. But when you read Memory Alpha's page on the war it lists every major engagement of the war and I think with the exception of one (the attack on the shipyards at the very beginning of the war) they're all shown on screen and obviously Enterprise wasn't at any of them.
I'm also pretty sure there was some passing line about "putting out brush fires" in Insurrection, right? Whatever the case, from the movies, I never got the impression Enterprise-E did very much during the war. My in-universe question is why?
-Withers-
It lists ever major ON-SCREEN engagement of the war, not every single one of them.
The real reason the movies never gave any indication of the ENT-E in the war? Because Paramount didn't want to confuse the audience who had no idea about the war and gave them a one/two line reference while not having them impact the plot at all.
The real reason the movies never gave any indication of the ENT-E in the war? Because Paramount didn't want to confuse the audience who had no idea about the war and gave them a one/two line reference while not having them impact the plot at all.
Withers
Captain
It doesn't qualify. So we can't qualify it either.
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Dominion_War
The Paramount not wanting to confuse the auidence is bunk altogether though. First of all, by the time of Insurrection, I think it was pretty clear that the people going to see the movies were Trekkies. It wasn't like a large percentage of the general movie going audience was headed for that film in the first place. So that wouldn't confuse anybody.
Secondly, they did mention and in a way that complicates it a little bit. By saying Shinzon fought twelve major engagements one immediately wonders where and if it was with the Schimitar (though ostensibly that seems silly since such a powerful warship would have to be at one of the major battles right? Oh right... Enterprise...)
The production reasons make sense. The fact is they never took the time to make a reasonable in-universe reason for its absence.
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Dominion_War
The Paramount not wanting to confuse the auidence is bunk altogether though. First of all, by the time of Insurrection, I think it was pretty clear that the people going to see the movies were Trekkies. It wasn't like a large percentage of the general movie going audience was headed for that film in the first place. So that wouldn't confuse anybody.
Secondly, they did mention and in a way that complicates it a little bit. By saying Shinzon fought twelve major engagements one immediately wonders where and if it was with the Schimitar (though ostensibly that seems silly since such a powerful warship would have to be at one of the major battles right? Oh right... Enterprise...)
The production reasons make sense. The fact is they never took the time to make a reasonable in-universe reason for its absence.
-Withers-
And importantly, the show was pretty explicit about Bajor being a strategically unimportant backwater whose only claim to glory was the wormhole. Since the wormhole ceased to exist as a means of passage in "Sacrifice of the Angels", Bajor's strategic importance disappeared overnight. So it's extremely unlikely that we saw any major percentage of the important Dominion War battles when we watched the show called ST: Deep Space Nine, because that show didn't take place in the war zone.
Okay, so Bajor was next-door neighbors with Cardassia Prime. But apparently, that was like Richmond being next-door neighbors with Washington in the Civil War, or London sitting next to Berlin in WWII: no strategic headway could be made on that front, and the war was decided elsewhere.
Also interestingly, whenever there was combat action relating to DS9, we saw fleets consisting largely of century-old ship types. Where were all the modern ships, say, the likes of the ones we saw in "Best of Both Worlds", with definite Galaxy design lineage? Where else but on the main fronts of the war...
Which gets us back to the issue of when ST:INS took place. If it was during the war, there probably wouldn't be much emphasis on brush fires... Or on archaeology, duck-blind study of supposed primitive cultures, or diplomacy with cultures that have only recently discovered warp drive.
Timo Saloniemi
Withers
Captain
So, even if you disregard Bajor, DS9 was not only guarding the Wormhole it was the headquarters of the 9th fleet after Operation Return. The decisions that fleet made ultimately decided the war and we saw all of those battles. DS9 itself wasn't necessarily on the front but it was a tempting target with strategic importance added to the fact that any time anything important on the actual front happened, Sisko and company were present (i.e. all the battles we saw beyond that point including the final defeat of the Dominion at Cardassia Prime.)
I don't really agree. We saw plenty of Galaxy class ships and we saw plenty of Akira class ships too. We also saw a lot of Excelsior class ships (which could have been built at really any point and while the design was a century old it had been re-fit enough times to still be in service/production upto the point Voyager was launched at least.) That's not to mention the Defiant class ships and the attack fighters which were present at more battles than one.
Well, we can pretty much rule out the possibility of it happening before the war started, right? The idea of it happening after it ended also seems wrong (due to the whole Worf issue along with a whole bunch of others...) I don't know how to justify what is seen/heard on screen with any other conclusion than the war was happening during Insurrection.
Which, naturally, begs the question of what the hell the flag ship was doing peddling around with 600 lives while a war for the alpha quadrant was going on... if there was some major engagement of some significance to the outcome where Sisko wasn't it'd be nice to think Enterprise was there instead.
-Withers-
An interesting thing about the"ST:INS occurs after the Dominion War" theory is that it means INS spoiled DS9. The movie came out between eps 9 and 10 of DS9 season 7. So starting with DS9 episode 7-10 we already know the Federation won the war. Or at least the Dominion certainly didn't win.
I wonder if they should've put a spoiler warning at the beginning of INS:
"Attention DS9 fans. This movie spoils the ending to the television series Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Please leave the movie theater now. Thank you."
Robert
I wonder if they should've put a spoiler warning at the beginning of INS:
"Attention DS9 fans. This movie spoils the ending to the television series Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Please leave the movie theater now. Thank you."
Robert
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I was just kidding about the spoiler thing. Yes, for sure we certainly knew they weren't going to destroy the Federation. Still feels odd that they basically started presenting post-war stories before they presented the ending to the war itself. Kinda like if in Babylon 5, they showed season 5 before season 4. And this is IF the theory that INS is after the war is true, I'm not saying it IS true.
Hey, when they Remaster INS, they could Remaster the Lost flashback/forward transition rumble into the beginning and end of Insurrection!
Robert
Hey, when they Remaster INS, they could Remaster the Lost flashback/forward transition rumble into the beginning and end of Insurrection!
Robert
Withers
Captain
Saito S and RyuRoots actually came up with the best possible solution to this problem; Insurrection should have been about the liberation of Betazed. All the puzzle pieces fit perfectly. They practically set up the pitch on DS9 by using Betazed in the first place. Ah... lamented; the movies that should have been 
.
.-Withers-
Withers
Captain
They were PO'd because the instant the ship is shown it's getting its ass handed to it and is burning in space. The objection was warranted I think- Defiant should have done a better job against the Cube since that's what it was designed to do.
That's beside the point though; from a production standpoint that'd be the only thing I could think of holding them back. Obviously, the TNG couldn't just co-opt Weyoun and Dukat (though they'd be the best villains to ever appear in a TNG film) so that is one honest barrier I see.
-Withers-
That and that the film makers had originally intended to destroy the Defiant in First Contact until they were talked out of it.
The Defiant was never tested in actual battle with a Cube, so whether or not it was designed to fight the Borg didn't really matter. It would've seemed rather odd that the Defiant would be able to last against a Cube undamaged for hours in a running battle while other bigger stronger ships were being blasted apart.
But anywho, if TNG did a Dominion movie the DS9 crew would have to mention it in DS9 since it would be part of the war and I doubt they'd want to do that.
But anywho, if TNG did a Dominion movie the DS9 crew would have to mention it in DS9 since it would be part of the war and I doubt they'd want to do that.
Withers
Captain
Until Big E showed up Defiant was the only ship present that had Quantum torpedoes. It was also the only ship to employ ablative armor at that point too. So, I wouldn't expect Defiant to last the whole fight or win all on its own, but I still think it would have done a better job than it did (or at least I like to think so since I'm a great big fan of that tough little ship.
The perfect moment would have been at Worf's wedding. They wanted the Enterprise crew to be there but they could only get Riker and LaForge and they decided all or nothing so it was nothing. If they could have had them all there I think a reference to what they would be up to (as in what Enterprise would be doing during the war) would have been... mandatory. Alas, it didn't pan out and we'll never know.
-Withers-
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