What was more destructive: V'Ger or the whale probe?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Soong-type Android, May 18, 2020.

  1. Soong-type Android

    Soong-type Android Commander Red Shirt

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    Given their effect on ships and on the Earth what would be considered the most powerful or most destructive? Also, how did they get away with using the same plot device in two different movies a few years apart?
     
  2. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Commodore Commodore

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    V'Ger destroyed ships and stations, the whale probe only disabled them. V'Ger wanted to sterilize the whole planet, the whale probe took its time and its intentions beyond contacting whales are unclear. They used the big bad ship plot device in 3 movies in a row as well XD
     
  3. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    OTOH, we don't know of any harm that V'Ger would have done to Earth, save for turning off the planetary defenses. In contrast, the Whale Probe probably killed at least thousands and perhaps millions by introducing hostile weather phenomena while at the same time removing technological protection from the poor folks who thus get exposed to the plummeting temperature and the total cloud cover.

    The timeline of TVH isn't clear-cut, though. How long does the cloud cover thing last? Sarek prompts the President to send the distress call only seconds after the first reports of dropping temperatures come in. The heroes then hear the call, quickly identify the whale problem, and start preparing for time travel. It's at this point where we get a gap of unknown length, during which millions freeze, or then not. Kirk then calls SF HQ, and right after his call concludes, he also returns from the past into San Francisco Bay, after which mere minutes transpire before the Probe stops creating clouds (and, apparently, also actively reverses the damage done, or at least disperses the clouds).

    As for the ships disabled by the Probe, would the crews have survived? The Yorktown folks seemed to be in dire straits, so possibly the Saratoga crew, distressed earlier on, was already frozen solid? Although one would presume that resourceful Starfleet folks would find ways to stay alive when threatened by mere circumstance rather than an actively attacking foe, we have many examples of this not happening.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  4. StarCruiser

    StarCruiser Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    V'Ger intended to cleanse the Earth of it's "carbon unit" infestation - aka - wipe us (and every other living thing) out...

    I'd say that pretty seriously destructive.
     
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  5. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Spock's statement about the orbiting devices V'Ger launches tells us everything we need to know about the destructive capability:

    "They are 100's of times more powerful, Captain. From those positions, they could devastate the entire surface of the planet "

    Ilia's statement to Kirk tells you everything you need to know about the intent:

    "The creator has not responded. The carbon-unit infestation will be removed from the creator's planet"
     
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  6. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Commodore Commodore

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    And that would include all animals, plants, bacteria...
     
  7. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ...And could probably be expected whenever an alien intellect pays a visit. "Reusing the plot device" here basically is no different from "again doing a plot with people in it": this is just how plausible aliens behave. :devil:

    My point was would vs. could. V'Ger never got to it. The Whale Probe apparently did.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  8. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    VGER was digitizing and cataloguing things out of boredom from counting all those nanoseconds, which go by fast.

    The humpby whale probe was sucking power from anything generating it, leaving ships in space for people to suffocate and freeze to death within minutes. Also not being FTL by the looks of things and forgetting just how humpback whales were transmitting to their alien home their incessant and equally boring messages of "Hey dad, we're okay, no need to make mommy suffer the pain of birthing more, thank you!" Humpback whales do not have biological mechanisms that send radio waves at subspace or other frequencies, never mind sound cannot travel in outer space - oops. And wasn't it amazing how Kirk could get everyone back all by himself and within the needed minutes so no starship or starbase anywhere would feel any lasting harm in the end? Ugh. But that's STIV, a film featuring nooners and sitcom end credits with accompanying incidental music. Which may have been intentionally ironic - a movie about fish out of water having a style and format and end credits and music that are just as much out of place.
     
  9. Galileo7

    Galileo7 Commodore Commodore

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    V'ger.
     
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  10. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

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    Trumbull: Let's get futurist Syd Mead to design the alien ship
    ILM: Well, it's a log with a basketball
     
  11. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They weren't the same intentions, V'Ger wanted to make contact with its version of god whilst the Whale Probe was investigating the inherently destructive and small-minded nature of humanity.
     
  12. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    V'Ger was a simpleton whose motivations were spelled out for us. We still don't know what the Whale Probe wanted.

    (As for sound in space, it's actually one of the key methods by which we study the Sun nowadays. The Probe ought to have no problem listening to what the whales say, simply by measuring the sound waves from afar: they don't have to actually reach the Probe, just like the sound waves of the Sun don't have to get beyond the surface of the Sun in order to be studied. EM takes care of the rest of the way.)

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  13. Markonian

    Markonian Commodore Commodore

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    They’re basically runaway Von Neumann probes. It’s credible civilisations may have accidentally seeded the galaxy with all these doomsday machines, it’s just strange a lot of them tend to head towards Earth - only an interstellar power since the 2160s.

    The Federation should track the Whale Probe to its senders and give them a lesson about disrupting a planetary ecosystem. I hope the Terran Empire had a few choice words with the probe makers.

    In an old RPG, the Terrans also timenapped some whales, but the probe transformed them into armored leviathans that inundated Earth’s coastlines with tsunamis.

    A Myriad Universes story has the probe devastate Earth because Kirk is not around to fetch some whales. With Earth thus weakened, typically the Klingon warmongers swoop in an subjugate the world.

    Oh, how I despise this self-righteous, downright evil whale probe.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
  14. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

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    That is literally the stupidest thing I've heard all year. LOL
     
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  15. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The very point of berserkers would be that they won't care: any "power" in their way would be deserving of termination, and the more primitive, the better, because termination then becomes easier. OTOH, berserkers would be pointless if they didn't cover the entire galaxy; a bit of overlap would only be expected. (And if a berserker fails, a second one would probably soon be vectored in - although whether the century of peace after DDM, V'Ger and the Whale Probe counts as "soon" or not is debatable.)

    Annoying berserkers is probably the worst way imaginable to pursue longevity for your civilization...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  16. publiusr

    publiusr Vice Admiral Admiral

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    V’ger could have done more damage than the Probe— but didn’t get around to it.
     
  17. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Obviously, the agency in charge of monitoring similarities in inciting incidents fell down on the job that day.
     
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  18. StarCruiser

    StarCruiser Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    They must have been delayed by the Department of Redundancy Department...