Sexual reproduction is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.NO.
MORE.
FUCKING.
BORG.
At any rate:
I think we've had enough Changelings, WAAAAYYYYY more than enough Borg, and WAAAAYYYYY TOO MUCH Section 31.
What storylines do you NOT want to see in Trek?
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At any rate:
I think we've had enough Changelings, WAAAAYYYYY more than enough Borg, and WAAAAYYYYY TOO MUCH Section 31.
The trouble with Section 31 is we haven't got a series that's built to use them properly. They were created for Deep Space Nine to resonate with Bashir's spy fantasies and Sisko's darker choices, and even that series with its political drama and greyer morality kind of left them as a problem unsolved instead of a necessary evil.
I think the big problem is no one (as in writers) seems to know what to do with Section 31. Or at least none of them seem to agree about what it is exactly.
Crossovers that make no sense, that happen “for the sake of it”. Best example would be a Trek movie that apparently almost happened, where all the major Trek heroes and villains from all the different eras were to be thrown at each other in a big mush, Marvel-event style. Just a terrible idea! Please never do that!
(I’m fine with crossovers that tell a story and make at least thematic sense; I like Generations. But not “They fight! For reasons! Hey look, they won!”)
(I’m fine with crossovers that tell a story and make at least thematic sense; I like Generations. But not “They fight! For reasons! Hey look, they won!”)
I don’t know — it’s been a major story-generator ever since it was created. It’s true that they can’t seem to decide if they’re an unmitigated evil or a necessary one, but that strikes me as realistic: a universe in which, for two hundred years, they’re always and absolutely wrong every single time strikes me as just as silly as one in which they’re actually just misunderstood heroes every time. They’re both a blight on the Federation’s record, and a source of at least some its victories. It wouldn’t make sense otherwise — if they were nothing but blight they’d have been taken down one way or another; if they were Really Heroes they’d just be Starfleet Intelligence.
And were brought back in Enterprise to show their origins and to give Reed something to do.
And then brought back again in Into Darkness to supplement a badmiral and to show how Kirk and Spock would handle the organization.
And then were brought back yet again in Discovery with their own fleet.
And were brought back yet again in both Lower Decks and Picard to show some sort of continuity with Deep Space Nine . Yet are also out in the open like in Discovery.
The only thing they agree on (i.e. Kelvinverse and current era) is that it should be used to make Star Trek cool.
I think the kind of writers that really know what to do with Section 31 aren't working for Paramount.
A proper espionage thriller, in the style of the Bourne movies, in the Trek universe…
It sounds kind of cool.
The list you made above regarding Section 31 really sums up my feelings. As an organisation, they just seem to be stock bastards who have resources limited (or unlimited) to whatever the plot requires.
A Star Trek show actually about spies doing spy stuff could be very cool. How does espionage really operate within the 24th century federation… there’s world building in something like that.
Not gonna happen unfortunately… eh, I can’t always get what I want.
For sure. They make stories and sometimes good ones. I just struggle to understand them as an entity because it seems every new production team that takes them goes their own way with the idea.
I don’t totally understand how M15 works… but though relatively consistent and varied reading/watching, I have an idea of it.
Section 31 is just… I don’t know what they are… not to the extent where I can believe and invest in them as a viewer.
Id like to have my mind changed.
Well of course, there’s also the fact that they don’t want you to know what they are, right? But I hear what you’re saying.
EDIT: Though… there’s a tendency in Star Trek, and some other fandoms, to want to see “our” side as the unmitigated good guys/utopia/etc. Sort of how it took a long time for certain parts of fandom to get that nBSG wasn’t ultimately about blowing up Cylons. Having a clear flaw like Section 31 running around out there is a useful corrective for that — to allow that, even after all the TNG propaganda, the society isn’t one-sidedly Good.
The thing is, Starfleet vs Section 31 as a battle for the Federation's soul only works if anyone's actually standing against them. If they just let Section 31 do their thing and continue to get support from people high up in Starfleet then it seems pretty one-sided to me.
If I want to watch a television series about spies, I'll break out my Get Smart complete series DVD set.
<Siegfried> Schtarker! Ziz is the Federation! Ve don't Section 31 here!</Siegfried>
<Siegfried> Schtarker! Ziz is the Federation! Ve don't Section 31 here!</Siegfried>
Would people prefer the JAG approach and the main characters act as spies regardless of skill set?
If they'd just stop mentioning Section 31 that'd work fine.
Mileage will vary but man do I hate the bad admiral of the week trope far more and think Section 31 at least offers a measure of plausibility rather than regular corruption at the higher levels of leadership.
But, it strains credulity for me to have Picard, or Kirk or Sisko given spy work.
Bad admirals was mostly a TNG trope. Homefront aside, the worst thing an admiral ever did on DS9 was work with Section 31.
But this isn't just DS9. Starfleet admirals are corruptible and apparently that's just an occupational hazard. To me, that's ridiculous.
There are likely thousands of Starfleet Admirals out there, who simply do their jobs until they retire. The few we see over the various TV shows come across as a statistical error in the grand scheme of things.
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