What should be the minimal requirements for Federation members?
- Thread starter Wadjda
- Start date
I would think it's a united government, democratic with safeguards against a tyranny of the majority, and no government segregation. I don't think I've ever seen the entire episode, but I think the Cloud Minders were allowed in because it was economic segregation, might be wrong though.
No eating of fellow citizens.
Having indigiously invented warp drive might not be a requirement, provided they acquired it somehow. I've thought for sometime that if a civilization were sufficiently advance in all other ways, but lacked a warp drive, that they still might be considered for membership.
Membership might be a matter of what you could bring to the Federation whole, what you can put on the table. A number of colonies perhaps, a local fleet so that you can "nail down" your section of the Federation, an unusual resource (Ardana), good relations with a species that the current Federation has had problems with and wants to be closer too.
You have to buy your way into the game.
"and no government segregation," I not completely sure I know what you mean by this.
Picard mention something once about a world government, or something to that effect. I wonder if it would have to be a single planet-wide state, or if the multiple nations of a planet creating a limited governing body to speak with one voice on interstellar matters would satisfy the requirement.
For a planet to be a "democracy?" A ruling monarchy might be interesting, King and Queens.
During ENT Vulcan had the central command running the planet, and while it's clear that there was a change at the top, it isn't clear that the central command structure was dismantled. Older fanzines and fan fiction postulated that Vulcan was governed by a collection of "family clans."
Ardana appeared to be a aristocracy.
There were planets in the Trek-verse that were own by corporations, so some Federation Members might be ruled not so much by governments, but by corporate entities.
In "Attached", where Picard and Beverly were forcibly telepathically linked, the fact that two governments were at war on the planet (among other things) was enough to deny their request for admission.
Hot, fit females (for humanoids at least). See examples: Human, Vulcan, Orion (including Abramstrek), Andorian (see ENT) and several other TOS and TNG episodes.
Warp capability was a retcon concept and frankly I'm wondering if that was a TOS requirement when I actually look at Gideon or Ardana.
There was no indication that the Gideonites had ever made any attempt to leave their planet (or they'd probably long ago started to solve their overpopulation problem by colonizing other planets).
And Droxine had never met a Vulcan nor did she have any knowledge about Vulcans and their biology ("The Clod Minders"). Of course, she may have been "protected" from contact with outsiders, but then again the people of Ardana didn't necessarily have spacecraft either.
KIRK: (dictating) At Federation orders, we're proceeding at top warp speed to the planet Ardana, where the only source of zenite exists. It is the one substance that can halt the plague.
Wouldn't it have sped up the acquisition process hat the people of Ardana sent a transport ship with the zenite to rendezvous with the Enterprise?
OTOH I could imagine both planets having invented satellite technology or the like enabling them to detect warp drive travel of others, which IMHO would equally justify a first contact encounter.
Bob
No, but obviously the UFP wanted Gideon to become one.
Captain's log, stardate 5423.4. We are orbiting the planet Gideon, which is still not a member of the United Federation of Planets. The treaty negotiations have been difficult because Gideon has consistently refused the presence of a delegation from the Federation on its soil, or any surveillance by the ship's sensors. They have finally agreed to a delegation of one. They insisted it be the Captain of the Enterprise. I am, therefore, beaming down at once.
Almost sounds like Gideon was already known in the 21st Century, otherwise that "still not a member" remark is somewhat odd.
Or it's an expression of UFP hegemony that doesn't like the concept of independent planets within "Federation borders"?
Possibly a paradise for tax evasion...
And then we have that mystery planet Gary Seven referred to:
SEVEN: I've been living on another planet far more advanced. I was beaming to Earth when you intercepted me.
KIRK: The location of that planet?
SEVEN: They wish their existence kept secret. Even in your time, it will remain unknown.
SCOTT: It's impossible to hide a whole planet.
SEVEN: Impossible for you, not for them.
Bob
Captain's log, stardate 5423.4. We are orbiting the planet Gideon, which is still not a member of the United Federation of Planets. The treaty negotiations have been difficult because Gideon has consistently refused the presence of a delegation from the Federation on its soil, or any surveillance by the ship's sensors. They have finally agreed to a delegation of one. They insisted it be the Captain of the Enterprise. I am, therefore, beaming down at once.
Almost sounds like Gideon was already known in the 21st Century, otherwise that "still not a member" remark is somewhat odd.
Or it's an expression of UFP hegemony that doesn't like the concept of independent planets within "Federation borders"?
Possibly a paradise for tax evasion...
And then we have that mystery planet Gary Seven referred to:
SEVEN: I've been living on another planet far more advanced. I was beaming to Earth when you intercepted me.
KIRK: The location of that planet?
SEVEN: They wish their existence kept secret. Even in your time, it will remain unknown.
SCOTT: It's impossible to hide a whole planet.
SEVEN: Impossible for you, not for them.
Bob
Last edited:
Lots of that sweet, sweet dilithium.
Basically I'm saying that maybe it wasn't a government decree that the society was separated in The Cloud Minders, but just an economic reality. Again, I'm not sure.
I think that what you were seeing on Ardana was basically a economic class system. The upper crust, the rich and the ruling leadership live in the cloud city. The miners were a part of the society's lower class, or possible the lower middle class.
There were others in their society, artists, artisans, police, servants, farmers. Someone built that city, I doubt it was the wealthy. Someone invented the anti-gravity that placed it in the sky.
There were others in their society, artists, artisans, police, servants, farmers. Someone built that city, I doubt it was the wealthy. Someone invented the anti-gravity that placed it in the sky.
Minimum requirements for membership would include an inherent love of Mexican food and barbecue, and fire. For grilling steaks. And livestock. For making barbecue and steaks.
Other things necessary for membership would be large coolers for beer, and the capacity and ability to build giant margaritas for mass consumption.
Other things necessary for membership would be large coolers for beer, and the capacity and ability to build giant margaritas for mass consumption.
I think that's neither correct or fair. From "Journey to Babel":
Captain's log, Stardate 3842.4. The interplanetary conference will consider the petition of the Coridan planets to be admitted to the Federation. The Coridan system has been claimed by some of the races now aboard our ship as delegates, races who have strong personal reasons for keeping Coridan out of the Federation.
SAREK: Under Federation law, Coridan can be protected and its wealth administered for the benefit of its people. Coridan has nearly unlimited wealth of dilithium crystals, but it is under-populated and unprotected. This invites illegal mining operations.
Essentially, the Coridan planets had asked for protection, not exploitatation.
And in the Tellun star system the Federation had offered mediation between Elas and Troyius. Apparently, unlike the Klingons, the Federation didn't even have a clue that there were deposits of dilithium crystals in that star system.
Bob
^^ Obviously some Federation members like the Tellarites did their own illegal mining but other than that, can you please provide an example?
Here is another example ("Mirror, Mirror"), that the rule book did not go out of the window:
THARN: We accept that your Federation is benevolent at present, but the future is always in question. Our dilithium crystals represent awesome power. Wrongful use of that power, even to the extent of the taking of one life, would violate our history of total peace. To prevent that, we would die, Captain. As a race, if necessary.
KIRK: I admire your ethics and hope to prove ours.
THARN: The council will meditate further, but do not be hopeful of any change. Captain, you do have the might to force the crystals from us, of course.
KIRK: But we won't. Consider that.
Bob
Here is another example ("Mirror, Mirror"), that the rule book did not go out of the window:
THARN: We accept that your Federation is benevolent at present, but the future is always in question. Our dilithium crystals represent awesome power. Wrongful use of that power, even to the extent of the taking of one life, would violate our history of total peace. To prevent that, we would die, Captain. As a race, if necessary.
KIRK: I admire your ethics and hope to prove ours.
THARN: The council will meditate further, but do not be hopeful of any change. Captain, you do have the might to force the crystals from us, of course.
KIRK: But we won't. Consider that.
Bob
Similar threads
