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What Makes TOS So Iconic ????

I feel a little bad about some of the heat sttngfan1701d has gotten, because I get where they're coming from. Viewed cold with today's dramatic and FX expectations -- expectations that have been formed by a surplus of high-quality serious drama on the small screen and intimidatingly awesome spectacles on the big screen -- let's face it, one can see why someone wouldn't "get" the appeal of TOS. Its appeal by this point comes from an understanding of its context.

Thinking about it, I have to agree with BigJake.

I wondered recently on here in another thread about how we older original series fans would've reacted in out youths to the Buck Rogers serials from 1936. I think it's a valid comparison. On the internet of the early 70's, just imagine the arguments that would've ensued...much like this one here, I'd surmise! :)
 
I was watching a review of Best Of Both Worlds on the SciFi channel and I was sort of listening in the background when they said it was so campy. They said they've heard the criticism that TOS was cheesy but when they showed the clip from the excellent Best of Both Worlds they said you can't get more camp than this.
I was shocked. I've always heard that criticism of TOS from the 24th century fans but looking at that clip I particular scene I have to agree with them.

And if you're looking at acting perhaps you should look a bit more carefully at McFadden, Frakes, Sirtis and the over the top performances (sometimes) of Spiner.
I haven't seen BOBW in awhile but I'm sure I'd agree. Plenty of TNG was horrible if you look back on it. I still laugh out loud at the oil-slick creature that kills Yar, the entire episode of "Code of Honor", "Encounter at Farpoint" itself is difficult to watch. I always thought the Traveler was silly. Most episodes featuring Alexander I don't like. The two-parter that ended season 5 and started season 6 was bad. The episode with Lore and the Borg.

The point is, none of that diminishes my love of the franchise. I think our love for the Trek UNIVERSE and all the mythology that surrounds it makes us put on rose colored glasses. For example, in my opinion, TMP is better than TWOK in terms of being the best Star Trek film, since it's more true to the original spirit of the show. But do I enjoy it when I watch it? Not really. And I wouldn't show it to a non-fan, since that would be torture for them. But I can appreciate it from a technical point of view and I can forgive the LOL moments ("Bones! I need you! Badly!" and "Phooootonnnnn torpeeeeedoooos awaaaaayyyy!" etc) when I watch it. I can even appreciate what Star Trek V tried to do even though it's executed poorly. Hell, I can even like "The Paradise Syndrome" in a way, even though IT'S horrible.

The point is, TOS was not perfect. It wasn't iconic because it was some masterpiece. It's FAR from a masterpiece and we all know it. It's iconic because a confluence of different things and the time which it aired, and RERUNS, more than anything else, assured it would live on.

I'm not sure it would get that much of a chance to seep into pop culture if it aired today. It might've been popular mostly online. And at least in my market, most syndication spots are not taken up by hourlong dramas. Sitcoms rule the day.
 
It's iconic because a confluence of different things and the time which it aired, and RERUNS, more than anything else, assured it would live on.

You may believe TOS has no merit and was lucky because of its timing and because it was rerun a lot.
I believe it had to have something more solid to keep a sizeable band of followers 45 years later on.
 
I wondered recently on here in another thread about how we older original series fans would've reacted in out youths to the Buck Rogers serials from 1936. I think it's a valid comparison. On the internet of the early 70's, just imagine the arguments that would've ensued...much like this one here, I'd surmise! :)
Not much to wonder. Not long before discovering Star Trek I was able to see Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon serials aired on The Commander Tom Show out of Buffalo. While as a kid you mightn't get what camp is like you can as an adult it was nonetheless clear that the 1930's serials and Star Trek were two very different animals. And the serials were never meant to be anything more than what they were whereas TOS was meant to be something different from the get-go.
 
It's iconic because a confluence of different things and the time which it aired, and RERUNS, more than anything else, assured it would live on.

You may believe TOS has no merit and was lucky because of its timing and because it was rerun a lot.
I believe it had to have something more solid to keep a sizeable band of followers 45 years later on.
No merit? Where did you get that? I said "confluence of different things" and that doesn't mean I'm dismissive.

Like I said earlier in the thread, it had easily identifiable character archetypes, which helped make the concept accessible. It was allegorical and dealt with current events in its stories. I'll go further -- It was "cool" and in color, with starships and planets and lasers and Mr. Spock. It presented a positive future, confronted race issues and all that stuff. Showed space travel at a time when Gemini and Apollo were going on. And yes, the time in which it aired had a lot to do with it, since the time ALLOWED for such issues to be confronted.

But the fact ALSO remains that it was low-rated and canceled after 3 years. The RERUNS are what allowed it to seep into pop culture, reach more people, inspire the children and college kids that would go on to be scientists and claim it as inspiration. Without reruns it would've died, and would not have lasted 40-50 years. And that's a fact.
 
It's iconic because a confluence of different things and the time which it aired, and RERUNS, more than anything else, assured it would live on.

You may believe TOS has no merit and was lucky because of its timing and because it was rerun a lot.
I believe it had to have something more solid to keep a sizeable band of followers 45 years later on.
No merit? Where did you get that? I said "confluence of different things" and that doesn't mean I'm dismissive.

Like I said earlier in the thread, it had easily identifiable character archetypes, which helped make the concept accessible. It was allegorical and dealt with current events in its stories. I'll go further -- It was "cool" and in color, with starships and planets and lasers and Mr. Spock. It presented a positive future, confronted race issues and all that stuff. Showed space travel at a time when Gemini and Apollo were going on. And yes, the time in which it aired had a lot to do with it, since the time ALLOWED for such issues to be confronted.

But the fact ALSO remains that it was low-rated and canceled after 3 years. The RERUNS are what allowed it to seep into pop culture, reach more people, inspire the children and college kids that would go on to be scientists and claim it as inspiration. Without reruns it would've died, and would not have lasted 40-50 years. And that's a fact.

I agree the reruns have made it last 40-50 years.
But its not going to be rerun unless people want to watch it. Unless they can relate to it.

Same as the reruns on the scifi channel. They are softening my attitude towards TNG (well a bit) :lol:
I would never have watched TNG aside from the first few episodes that were shown on mainstream TV here unless it had been re-run on cable.
 
And then, of course, there was what Dax said in Trials and Tribble-ations: "And women wore less".
That was definitely an attraction for the hormone crzed guys (like me).
 
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I feel a little bad about some of the heat sttngfan1701d has gotten, because I get where they're coming from. Viewed cold with today's dramatic and FX expectations -- expectations that have been formed by a surplus of high-quality serious drama on the small screen and intimidatingly awesome spectacles on the big screen -- let's face it, one can see why someone wouldn't "get" the appeal of TOS. Its appeal by this point comes from an understanding of its context.

Thinking about it, I have to agree with BigJake.

I wondered recently on here in another thread about how we older original series fans would've reacted in out youths to the Buck Rogers serials from 1936. I think it's a valid comparison. On the internet of the early 70's, just imagine the arguments that would've ensued...much like this one here, I'd surmise! :)

Rather than call you ignorant of history, I'll just assume you're being facetious. There WAS no internet in the early 1970's. Trust me. I was there.

I was only a little kid then, but I was there.:bolian:
 
The "internet of the '70s" consisted of fanzines, professional publications (like Starlog), phone calls, snail mail and groups of like-minded folks getting together. :)

It's very easy to be flippant and dismissive to ascribe TOS' longevity and success to one or two meaningless things. But, as was stated above, all the reruns would mean nothing if no one was watching. They kept rerunning the show because it pulled in viewers which is what television is all about. Granted different people were finding different things of appeal in the show and that speaks to a great strength of the show, that it could appeal to so many on different levels. This is not a small thing given most programming appeals on one or very few levels and therefore has a limited audience.

Although Lost In Space and other Irwin Allen sci-fi's of that era have cult followings none of them resonated among the greater audiences and to nearly the same extent of Star Trek. And that can be said about a lot of series from that period.

Star Trek was the right show at the right time and it clicked with the audience even in the beginning and even if the numbers weren't there initially. If it hadn't then it would have died in syndication as many other series did. I, for one, will be quite interested to read the followup volumes of Marc Cushman's TOS books to see what is to be said about TOS' original ratings and the reasons NBC canned the show (assuming ratings mightn't be the real or whole story). Because when you look at it Star Trek had everything going for it plus things the competition didn't have: intelligence and a generally adult level approach to the subject matter.

Would Star Trek succeed today? How can that really be answered because the perception of popular science fiction on television today has been greatly influenced by TOS and its spin-offs? Could Star Trek's concept work today? Maybe, but admittedly not done exactly like TOS but a similar approach might work. The sci-fi offered up today is generally of a narrow vision and often with a good dose of cynicism running through it similar to a lot of other television. In some respects a show evoking TOS' approach to the subject matter could be nearly as different from the mainstream as TOS was in the '60s.

JJtrek is not a true barometer of whether a show similar to TOS would work, because JJtrek is shallow and lacking in nuance and the general level of intelligence brought to TOS. You need only read of the thought that went into developing the series and the individual scripts and episodes. JJtrek rides on the coattails of what TOS did while parodying it at the same time. Stargate: SG-1 and Stargate: Atlantis are closer to TOS in more contemporary terms and those shows definitely had a following.

The television audience is also very fragmented today given the plethora of channels available, the narrow casting of programs and the diversity of media people have access to. Success on television is measured quite differntly today than even ten to twenty years ago. You're fighting for a smaller slice of the pie, a slice that would have been dismissed out of hand back in the day when much larger numbers (percentage wise) ruled.

It's easy to proclaim "Star Trek wouldn't work today," but that is a meaningless assertion because something like Star Trek really hasn't been tried recently. And it's really no differnt than the resistence (by some) to TOS' concept when the show was first pitched. Could a new Star Trek be as succesful as TOS and TNG? Who can say and possibly not by the standards used previously. But on the right network and done just the right way it possibly could succeed by today's standards.

Could a new Star Trek become iconic? That I doubt because so much has changed in the television landscape and audiences are bombarded with new things all the time and audiences in general seem to have less of an attention span and shorter memory. It all conspires (figuratively) to argue against the liklihood of a new Star Trek ever becoming iconic.
 
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