What Litverse books are still consistent with the new shows?

[OCD Geek]

My head canon is that any Litverse story that isn’t contradicted by the movies and TV shows played out exactly the same way in the Prime Universe as it did in the Litverse.

For example, I think A Stitch in Time, The Never-Ending Sacrifice, the Sulu/Demora novels and novellas, The Left Hand of Destiny/Diplomatic Implausibility/IKS Gorkon and New Frontier (Up through Stone & Anvil, at least. Which is the only part of the series that matters.) still fit. Some of the Lost Era novels too.

Am I wrong that they fit? What other Litverse stories could still exist in both timelines?

 

[Christopher]

I think most of it prior to the end of DS9 still fits (e.g. Rise of the Federation and The Lost Era), though there are exceptions. Living Memory has been contradicted by SNW's backstory for Uhura. The Eugenics Wars may still count, but only if it's presumed to take place in the earlier version of the timeline before it was rewritten by temporal cold warriors as established in SNW. That canonization of the rewriting of history opens the door for a number of books to be counted as part of earlier versions of the timeline.

 

[OCD Geek]

I think most of it prior to the end of DS9 still fits (e.g. Rise of the Federation and The Lost Era), though there are exceptions. Living Memory has been contradicted by SNW's backstory for Uhura. The Eugenics Wars may still count, but only if it's presumed to take place in the earlier version of the timeline before it was rewritten by temporal cold warriors as established in SNW. That canonization of the rewriting of history opens the door for a number of books to be counted as part of earlier versions of the timeline.

What about relaunch era spin-off stuff like the Klingon/Gorkon stuff, pre-time jump New Frontier and The Never-Ending Sacrifice? I know that some of the ties are kept vague enough (like Worf being surprised by who the new head of DS9 is, but the novel not revealing to the audience that it’s Ro) to still fit.

 

[Christopher]

You probably remember those better than I. But my impression is that they share continuity with the post-finale DS9 stuff, so there are probably references that would be tricky to reconcile. Up to the individual, of course.

 

[Extrocomp]

Isn't it only the post-Nemesis stuff that got contradicted by Picard?

 

[OCD Geek]

Isn't it only the post-Nemesis stuff that got contradicted by Picard?

Picard also contradicted some key stuff from the DS9 relaunch (set three years earlier than Nemesis) like Ro’s post-Preemptive Strike life.

And Strange New Worlds contradicted M’Benga first name and career from Vanguard.

 

[Markonian]

I keep thinking, with the Titan never exploring Vela, Droplet suffers an extinction level event in 2381.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And Strange New Worlds contradicted M’Benga first name and career from Vanguard.

Hasn't M'Benga had like four or five first names in the novels?

 

[David Mack]

And Strange New Worlds contradicted M’Benga first name and career from Vanguard.

Clearly, Jabilo M'Benga is Joseph M'Benga's younger cousin who idolizes his older kinsman and wants to follow in his footsteps.

 

[Christopher]

I keep thinking, with the Titan never exploring Vela, Droplet suffers an extinction level event in 2381.

Perhaps someone else came to their aid. Alternate-timeline stories can be tricky given how often a story claims the survival of a world or civilization came down to one person or crew being in the right place at the right time. I still wonder, in the "Yesteryear"/The Chimes at Midnight parallel reality where Spock died as a child, how did Earth survive V'Ger?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

in the "Yesteryear"/The Chimes at Midnight parallel reality where Spock died as a child, how did Earth survive V'Ger?

Maybe it was Sonak in that timeline?

Clearly, Jabilo M'Benga is Joseph M'Benga's younger cousin who idolizes his older kinsman and wants to follow in his footsteps.

I'm down with that.

 

[comradepitrovsky]

I always thought that about Tapestry. Did Captain Halloway also become Locutus, get tortured by Madred, etc. etc.?

 

[The Wormhole]

I always thought that about Tapestry. Did Captain Halloway also become Locutus, get tortured by Madred, etc. etc.?

Probably

 

[Christopher]

I always thought that about Tapestry. Did Captain Halloway also become Locutus, get tortured by Madred, etc. etc.?

Locutus? Maybe. The Borg didn't target Picard specifically, they just wanted an authority figure as a spokesperson. However, would Starfleet have even encountered the Borg if Q hadn't decided to teach Picard a lesson about overconfidence? If it had been Halloway -- and if Guinan hadn't been there to provoke Q further -- the first Borg encounter might not have happened until decades later.

Madred? Probably not, since Picard was chosen for that mission because of his prior experience with the kind of emissions they were trying to detect. Heck, even that was a lame excuse for the writers to send a starship captain on a mission that should've been performed by Starfleet Intelligence or whatever the equivalent of a SEAL team is. So it's hard to believe any other captain would've been sent on that mission.

 

[The Wormhole]

Madred? Probably not, since Picard was chosen for that mission because of his prior experience with the kind of emissions they were trying to detect.

Unless of course Halloway's career in that timeline also gave him experience with those emissions. Hell, for all we know, maybe Halloway also commanded the Stargazer in the timeline where Picard never got promoted past Lieutenant.

Though, I suppose that does all fall apart given since according to the Litverse Halloway was in line to command the Enterprise anyway before deciding to retire at the last minute, which would mean he had his own rich and full career with previous notable commands anyway.

 

[Christopher]

Unless of course Halloway's career in that timeline also gave him experience with those emissions. Hell, for all we know, maybe Halloway also commanded the Stargazer in the timeline where Picard never got promoted past Lieutenant.

That would be an absurdly contrived coincidence, and I don't see the appeal of it.

Though, I suppose that does all fall apart given since according to the Litverse Halloway was in line to command the Enterprise anyway before deciding to retire at the last minute, which would mean he had his own rich and full career with previous notable commands anyway.

Of course -- they wouldn't give "the flagship of the fleet" () to an untried captain. I don't follow your logic for how it "falls apart," though, since Picard also got the job because of his legendary 22-year tenure as the Stargazer's captain.

 

[The Wormhole]

I don't follow your logic for how it "falls apart," though, since Picard also got the job because of his legendary 22-year tenure as the Stargazer's captain.

I just meant that presumably Halloway's career went more or less the same between the two timelines with the only real difference being at the end whether he decides to command the Enterprise or not. Presumably in the timeline where Picard never commands the Stargazer, Halloway is off on whatever his assignment was at that time, meaning he wouldn't be available to command the Stargazer, and as such command would have gone to someone else, likely whoever the duty officer on the Stargazer's bridge was that took over after the original Captain was incapacitated like Picard did in the Prime timeline.

 

[Christopher]

I just meant that presumably Halloway's career went more or less the same between the two timelines with the only real difference being at the end whether he decides to command the Enterprise or not. Presumably in the timeline where Picard never commands the Stargazer, Halloway is off on whatever his assignment was at that time, meaning he wouldn't be available to command the Stargazer, and as such command would have gone to someone else, likely whoever the duty officer on the Stargazer's bridge was that took over after the original Captain was incapacitated like Picard did in the Prime timeline.

Well, yes, that's basically what I said, that it's just unlikely that another officer would end up in the same posting as Picard rather than living his own distinct life.

Although if we go with the version from The Sky's the Limit, Halloway was an engineer who'd been in charge of the Galaxy-class design project for two decades, which implies he may have been relatively older and more experienced than Picard, but also that he was never on the command track, aside from being the E-D's drydock captain. He didn't have a distinguished career of starship commands, he just spent twenty-odd years overseeing this one project, following what was presumably a distinguished career as a starship engineer and designer. Basically his career paralleled Geordi's more than Picard's.

That version of Halloway didn't really want to command the E-D once it left drydock, making it hard to see why he would've taken the gig in the "Tapestry" timeline. But if he had kept the captaincy, he might have been a workmanlike but uninspired commander. (Honestly, I've never been convinced that the "Tapestry" timeline was anything more than one of Q's illusions. Q claimed it was real, but how can you trust the word of a trickster?)

 

[comradepitrovsky]

Well, yeah, the question is if Halloway was a real person who would have taken the Enterprise if Picard wasn't there, or if Halloway was just a convenient cipher that Q inserted to make his point. Both have fair points - I think the episode points towards the latter*, but the former is a better thing for a shared universe. Since, you know, the universe is not destroyed and humanity not wiped out by any number of space bad guys, clearly Halloway couldn't have been that bad at his job.

*It's not like Trek had a problem with randomly mentioning other officers in the background who barely ever show up. Remember DeSoto?

 

[Christopher]

I'm not questioning whether Halloway existed, just whether the alternate present Q showed Picard was an actual alternate or a simulation to make Q's point. The Sky's the Limit version of Halloway seems unlikely to have taken command of the E-D even if Picard hadn't been there.