"What it requires of it's God, Doctor..."

[The Badger]

In the relm of Star Trek, "Ancient Klingon Warriors slew the gods millenia ago. They were more trouble than they were worth."

Goes to show they weren't really gods, eh?

Depends on how you define a god. In the theologies of the world, most gods are much more limited than the one in Judeo-Christian-Islam tradition. Vastly more powerful than humans, yes, but not infinitely so.

The idea that a god can die is not so implausible.

 

[barnaclelapse]

People forget that though. It's interesting and speaks volumes of a person's insight into and understanding of what a god is.

 

[Chrisisall]

He doesn't worship the bridge though.

No?

If they themselves don't think I deserve hell, why do they worship a God that does.

Here's what you do- believe whatever you like, but at the moment just before you die, make yourself believe Jesus is your saviour- you know, like how an actor makes themself believe they're sad or happy for a scene. It only has to be for a few seconds before you kick, and if there IS a God & Heaven, it'll get you in*.


*Courtesy of the Church of the Holy Last-Minute Acceptance.

 

[xortex]

Death - Dea (God) Evil - Eve (Woman)

 

[rahullak]

Evil Dead - Woman God

 

[xortex]

Evil Dead - Woman God

Star Trek - Good. Woman - Bad

 

[Forbin]

You are not Morg, you ar not Eymorg!!

 

[Forbin]

Anyhoo - the Enterprise did not have a "church" aboard, it had a multi-denominational chapel that could be used by anyone aboard, whatever their religion.

I'm not sure why anyone would "acknowledge the altar" upon entering. Are you supposed to do that? Is that just a Catholic thing? They go overboard in everything! There was a human being in pain in the room, maybe Kirk thought it was more importannt to comfort her than nod at an inanimate piece of polished wood.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Anyhoo - the Enterprise did not have a "church" aboard, it had a multi-denominational chapel that could be used by anyone aboard, whatever their religion.

I read this as "multi-dimensional" the first time, and was briefly thinking, "Wooooow! That'd be cool."

Then I got it.

 

[The Badger]

^ Multi dimensional chapels are used to worship Great C'thulhu.

 

[Rush Limborg]

I believe that "I don't know" is much more intellectually honest answer than "God did it." The latter simply pushes the question back one level while refusing to actually consider what the real answer may be.

In a way Christians offend me. I'm sorry they do. All of them. I live a good moral life and I help my neighbors, and I analyze everything as rationally as I can. I do not take Jesus to be savior, so Christians, by definition, believe that I am going to hell (or am excluded from heaven) or at least they worship a God that would do that to me,. If they themselves don't think I deserve hell, why do they worship a God that does. I don't believe in infinite reward for blind faith and for finite deeds, and I don't believe in infinite torture for finite crimes. I don't like that the main message most religions really send is guilt that we are supposed to feel guilty for everything, even simply being alive.

Screw religion. I wish you'd all grow up. Go back in the dark ages when the Bible really did explain how the world works.

Wow. That was civil....


Honestly? If you truly mean that you don't know, then why so readily diss those who claim they do?

Unless you mean that man cannot know--in which case you are defeating your own argument, by claiming that you know that we cannot know.

And no, God does not reward faith for being blind. He calls his followers constantly to use their minds. "Come now...and let us reason together", etc.

And no, we are not to feel guilty for being alive. To the contrary, we must feel proud to live, as we are created in the image of God, with the purpose of being fruitful, dominating the earth, and living life to the fullest, following nothing less than the highest standards of morality, because so doing brings glory to him, just as an invention working beautifully brings glory to the inventor.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Uh.. I think original sin is concept built around guilt for being alive, otherwise there would be no need for that term. You talk about teh highest standards of morality, but that is a joke. I mean the bible, the inspired word of God, endorses slavery, sexism and the stoning of rebellious youth. Did you not read the highest standards of morality in your own holy book. And don't say that's "just OT" because the ten commandments are also in that document. Also Jeus said clearly that "bnot a tittle" of the old law will be changed. god's word is perfect and forever, and he salays people for no good reason. The NT is worse as it suggests that you have an eternal soul and you can be subject to eternal damnation.

Where do you get your morality from, Rush Limborg?

 

[xortex]

Uh.. I think original sin is concept built around guilt for being alive, otherwise there would be no need for that term. You talk about teh highest standards of morality, but that is a joke. I mean the bible, the inspired word of God, endorses slavery, sexism and the stoning of rebellious youth. Did you not read the highest standards of morality in your own holy book. And don't say that's "just OT" because the ten commandments are also in that document. Also Jeus said clearly that "bnot a tittle" of the old law will be changed. god's word is perfect and forever, and he salays people for no good reason. The NT is worse as it suggests that you have an eternal soul and you can be subject to eternal damnation.

Where do you get your morality from, Rush Limborg?

Every day I try to 'be not a tittle'.

 

[CaptainStoner]

I am no longer Christian, but I still honor that part of my tapestry. But I tend to work more in terms of Taoism, shamanism, and the honoring of the Divine Feminine equally with the Divine Male. Which is neo-pagan, I suppose.

Religion, or the lack of religion, is the way in which we link back with the creative force of the universe. So it is naturally going to be different for each person. Different, and yet with the same elements. The pure Atheist is simply not willing to go beyond the physical universe, but they serve an important role and purpose. And besides, they'll get all the "evidence" they need when they die.

On that cheery thought, I'm off to see the Wizard...

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I'm willing to go beyond the physical. I believe in emergent properties

 

[Chrisisall]

Unless you mean that man cannot know--in which case you are defeating your own argument, by claiming that you know that we cannot know.

Man cannot survive unprotected in space, either. Would I be defeating my own argument there?

with the purpose of being fruitful, dominating the earth, and living life to the fullest

Sort of like if my Son started bringing girls home to sleep over in his room?

"Dominate the Earth", that's just plain stupid. If God can smite you for, I don't know, looking over your shoulder perhaps(?), than clearly, we do not dominate this planet.

 

[Rush Limborg]

I mean the bible, the inspired word of God, endorses slavery, sexism

No, it does not endorse slavery. In a time where slavery was the norm, God demanded that the "slaves" be treated with honor and dignity--and like employees. And Paul made clear to Christian slaves, "If you can get your freedom, take it."

As for sexism, there are tons of female heros in the Bible. Deborah, for example, was a judge--one of the leaders of Israel, in the Book of Judges.

and the stoning of rebellious youth

Now...the entire point of the law of the OT is that no one can keep the whole law. It is the perfect, uncompromising code that allows no sin.

The fact that no one can keep the law illustrates, yes, the concept of original sin--that no one is without sin. Note, however, that this does not nullify free will. Everyone, through their own free will, has sinned.

Thus, trying to reach heaven through "good works" is impossible. Why? Because of justice--cold...unbiased...blind...unfeeling...justice. Crimes must be punished.

 

[Chrisisall]

Now...the entire point of the law of the OT is that no one can keep the whole law. It is the perfect, uncompromising code that allows no sin.

So it allows no sin, but you can still sin. Hmmm. Cool.

Note, however, that this does not nullify free will. Everyone, through their own free will, has sinned.

So, you have free will to choose not to sin, but you have already sinned. Hmmm. Confusing.

justice--cold...unbiased...blind...unfeeling...justice. Crimes must be punished.

Like abusing your Oxycontin prescription in a kind of extra-legal way? Hmmmm. Interesting.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Tuln--

I wanted to let you know that I was very disappointed on a personal level with your comments in addition to the intellectual level. I do not want to get bogged down in theological discussion because obviously we will not see eye to eye no matter what (and it would take me a really, REALLY long time to do anything approaching an explanation that I feel would be sufficient--for make no mistake, I have thought through this very, VERY carefully), but suffice it to say that you chose to include me in stereotypes that DO NOT in any way apply to me, and many other people I know.

Just because I don't agree with nonbelievers doesn't mean I'm going to take every opportunity to belittle them as human beings. This goes completely against everything I believe about decency towards other human beings. And believe it or not, Christians are even instructed to be gentle towards those with whom they disagree. Does it get ignored a lot? Yeah. But it is most definitely there.

I recall another discussion you and I had, where I had thought you and I were able to be civil on this subject and that you said you did NOT consider believers to be lesser persons, and you said that my being a believer does not mean I am unthinking or intellectually less worthwhile than you. And now this. Which one of these am I to believe is the true reflection of how you would treat and regard those around you?

I suppose "betrayed" is the best word to explain how this sudden change of face makes me feel.

I'm sorry to all of those with whom I was enjoying a good discussion before, but the incivility--the post I refer to and a number of others--simply is not allowing for the sort of intellectual discussion I prefer.

 

[Chrisisall]

I'm sorry to all of those with whom I was enjoying a good discussion before, but the incivility--the post I refer to and a number of others--simply is not allowing for the sort of intellectual discussion I prefer.

Sorry for whatever my part might have been, but when I see a poster with the name "Rush-anything" much less a picture of the dude professing to *know* anything, I tend to set my phaser on high. It's a failing of mine.

>>>I also over-react to Telorites too.