• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

What is your honest opinion of Enterprise?

Well, the first half of ENT season 2 is the most painfully boring and formulaic stretch of Trek I have ever seen, including any equivalent stretch of Voyager, and that is saying something. I dropped the show at that point.

I have since seen most of seasons 3 and 4 and, while there is definitely a marked improvement, the show still doesn't rise above mediocrity very frequently imo. The writing is never consistently good.

It's true that Troi, Jadzia and Kira wore tight outfits as well, but it never felt as gratuitous as it did with Seven and then T'Pol. There are probably a variety of reasons for that. On the one hand, the actresses that played those characters were all extremely good looking, but none of them fit so clearly into the sci-fi genre babe stereotype as Seven and T'Pol. In Seven's case there was also this blatant contrast between the sexiness of her appearance and the sexlessness of her character and general sterility of the show. Troi, Kira and Jadzia all had romantic relationships and were allowed to not only look sexy but express their sexuality in the context of the story. Dax and Kira gossip about men they are dating and discuss who and what they find attractive, basically like normal people would.

Thus it made sense, for example, that Kira might want to look sexy because she was sexually active, romantically involved and interested in appearing attractive, just like anyone else. When you combine that with the fact that the character was complex, independent and certainly not reduced in any way to being a sex object, then there is no real problem except the relatively trivial matter that such a sexy outfit does not make much sense as a military uniform (which, given how ridiculous Starfleet uniforms are from this point of view, is hardly even noticeable). With Seven there was an obvious disconnect between the character and her appearance, which was anchored soley in how she was meant to appear to the audience, rather than to any of the other characters. As Ron Moore pointed out in his Voyager "exit interview," it's just so wierd that you have this gorgeous woman standing there in this incredibly sexy outfit and no one seems to notice or care. Compare with DS9, where everyone is in love with someone or lusting after someone and Quark never fails to make a suggestive remark when Kira walks in the bar, at which point Kira will threaten to cut off his lobes or whatever. Why would the ex-Borg drone be the only one on Voyager wearing a sexy outfit?

A similar point could be made with T'Pol initially as with Seven. I mean, why would this aloof and reserved Vulcan have implants, wear tight clothes and just generally look like a pin-up model? A least other characters did seem to notice more or less immediately that she was hot.

Early on in ENT there were a lot of failed attempts to make the show sexy, including the absolutely painful scenes in the decon chamber. These scenes were so obviously trying to be sexy and were so horribly unsexy. Utter failure. When Trip and T'Pol actually got involved later in the show I thought this was good for the character and lessened the impression of gratuity that seemed to be following in the Seven of Nine tradition in the first couple of seasons. It was still a little forced at times, but anyway a big improvement over the decon chamber (almost anything would be).
 
Last edited:
Colonel Kira's uniform was every bit as tight as Seven of Nine's or T'Pol's in the first part of the seventh season. Jadzia Dax's uniform was tight enough with the First Contact uniforms that she looked like her chest was going to rip out of it at any moment, and occasionally you could even catch a glimpse of camel toe, not unlike with Troi's spandex numbers. One can argue all they want about what made any version of it better, but when it comes down to it, it was all fan service.
 
There's been so much well-stated material in this thread that I'm actually less inclined to blather on for a dozen paragraphs than to simply give credit to the Stuff I Absolutely Agree With:

BillJ:

Some of the reasons Modern Trek failed was because it became self-important and insular. The values it was trying to preach did not match those of the audience it was trying to reach. Deep Space Nine and latter seasons of Enterprise did try to 'reverse' some of the irrational 'morality' presented in The Next Generation and Voyager.
Not everyone agrees, obviously, with the three words "Modern Trek failed," but let's be honest: For at least the last eight seasons of TV, and for me, certainly the last movie, the amount of effort and money expended to preach some glorious vision of future socialism repackaged as Americanism disguised as globalization, far exceeds whatever payback has been received from moderately entertained viewers.

ChristmasDaniel:

If "Spock's Brain" didn't do it, if Troi floating didn't do it, if Beverly having sex with a ghost didn't do it, if Paris going at infinity speed, turning into a lizard and having babies with Janeway didn't do it, if the novel where the TNG crew meet the X-men didn't do it, if Nero merging with V'Ger in the comics didn't do it, then I don't think Trek can definitively "jump the shark".
There is something inherently endearing about Star Trek among all its loyal fans, including myself, that enables us to selectively and without shame "move the shark." For any other show (cough, cough, FlashForward, cough), the shark is a fixed point in space.

Angel4576:

For a series set around the time of the Romulan war and the birth of the Federation, not to cornerstone the series around these key events from Treklore, instead contriving a temporal cold war maguffin, was fairly brainless.
This is probably the most pertinent, relevant, and accurate statement about Enterprise that I've ever read.

Admiral Young:

Archer/Trip/T'Pol I think should have been pushed more (not talking about a love triangle either lol) like Kirk/Spock/McCoy. Those three characters are the core of "Enterprise" as far as I'm concerned and at first they seemed like they were going for the same triad dynamic as with the original series but that kind of fell apart in my opinion when they decided to introduce the Trip/T'Pol romance. Archer isolated himself really from the rest of his crew as he chose to shoulder the responsibility of the Xini mission and I felt more like he should have been more interactive with his crew. We should have seen him interact more with Hoshi (I really liked their mentor dynamic and this should have been focused more on), and encourage Travis and share piloting stories and what not with him. I liked his relationship with Phlox. Close as we got to Bones/Kirk. Just a whole lot of potential failed I think.
The damn thing about modern Trek is that it approaches the concept of sexual relationships as if it's inventing the thing in a Petri dish. First of all, with DS9 as a gloriously wonderful exception, the woman can't simply be beautiful and leave it at that. No, we have to cast a fantastically beautiful woman, but then bind her in duct tape and plaster her with makeup and make her read dialogue as if it were spewed from an ATM machine.

To paraphrase Spock, this...simple feeling...is beyond modern Trek's comprehension. It pairs characters together like the American Kennel Club pairs pure-breds. "Let's put Trip and T'Pol in a locked blue cage with a two-way mirror and some gel and see what happens." It's the kind of curiosity a 12-year-old boy has after just being told by his gym coach how babies were made.

Dukhat:

Star Trek is about starships and aliens and strange new worlds, not about catsuits, buttcracks, and decon-gel lathering.
Admiral_Young:

Sex I suppose has been apart of Trek since the very beginning but not in a concerted overt way.
Yes, true, absolutely correct, but I also remember this...Uhura was smoking hot. There were some poses next to the captain's chair in the first season that made me forget the plot. What made her character work was that she wasn't just window dressing -- she was an intelligent, active, admirable, decent, equal (and African) member of the crew...who was smoking hot. Few TV characters ever created before 1966 had all of these qualities simultaneously, and I dare say that all too few Trek characters created since that time have been able to approach Uhura's perfect balance without having to fight their way out of duct tape and dying dialogue. (Although Major Kira was, in my opinion, the finest conceived, written, executed, and acted female character in Trek, although her character wasn't written to explore sexuality.)

Which leads me right to...

flemm:

It's true that Troi, Jadzia and Kira wore tight outfits as well, but it never felt as gratuitous as it did with Seven and then T'Pol. There are probably a variety of reasons for that. On the one hand, the actresses that played those characters were all extremely good looking, but none of them fit so clearly into the sci-fi genre babe stereotype as Seven and T'Pol. In Seven's case there was also this blatant contrast between the sexiness of her appearance and the sexlessness of her character and general sterility of the show. Troi, Kira and Jadzia all had romantic relationships and were allowed to not only look sexy but express their sexuality in the context of the story. Dax and Kira gossip about men they are dating and discuss who and what they find attractive, basically like normal people would.

Thus it made sense, for example, that Kira might want to look sexy because she was sexually active, romantically involved and interested in appearing attractive, just like anyone else. When you combine that with the fact that the character was complex, independent and certainly not reduced in any way to being a sex object, then there is no real problem except the relatively trivial matter that such a sexy outfit does not make much sense as a military uniform (which, given how ridiculous Starfleet uniforms are from this point of view, is hardly even noticeable).
If you have any of that Kool-Aid left, flemm, I'll drink it with you.

-DF "REED [to T'Pol, ogling her body]: You...are female! I am male!" Scott
 
I believe that was probably Dawn attempting to try and make the show appeal to a younger audience which is kind of silly. "Enterprise" being on the same network that "Smallville" and "Gilmore Girls" were on after the merger I feel hurt it as well. Sex I suppose has been apart of Trek since the very beginning but not in a concerted overt way.
Only because it aired on network tv in the '60's. If network tv in the '60's was like today it would've been more overt.
 
I watched Broken Bow.

I let out an animalistic scream.

A red ring descended from the heavens and spoke to me: "Herkimer Jitty of Earth, you possess much rage." My blood was replaced with super-heated plasma, which I violently vomited all over my TV before flying outside and headbutting everyone between my house and Paramount Studios.

WARGH.jpg


"But Spock was the first Vulcan in Star- ARRR AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGHHHH!!!!!"
 
Not sure of I reading that right. Is the complaint that Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet? Well T'Pol wasnt a member of Starfleet.

But I don't need to tell the folks that frequent this sub forum that! :lol:
 
Not sure of I reading that right. Is the complaint that Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet? Well T'Pol wasnt a member of Starfleet.

But I don't need to tell the folks that frequent this sub forum that! :lol:

T'Pol was from the Vulcan Science Institute if I remember correctly.
 
I actually had to think hard to come up with a canon complaint that I could voice for a mere few seconds before being consumed by the power of the Red Lantern Corps.
 
I actually had to think hard to come up with a canon complaint that I could voice for a mere few seconds before being consumed by the power of the Red Lantern Corps.

The problem is: NOWHERE in TOAS was it ever stated Spock was the first Vulcan in Star Fleet. Also, the TOS episode The Imunity Syndrome would argure against that as The U.S.S. Intrepid was 100% crewed by Vulcans - meaning it also had a Vulcan at Captain rank.

So, if you're going to claim something as 'canon'; better make sure it's actually canon first. :)

(And again brenn watching and have been a part of Star Treek fandom since 1969 - and it's always interesting when I see these non-canon 'canon' facts pop up. ;))
 
What was wrong with Enterprise?

For a series set around the time of the Romulan war and the birth of the Federation, not to cornerstone the series around these key events from Treklore, instead contriving a temporal cold war maguffin, was fairly brainless.

Personally, I thought that the third season was pretty strong, but aside from that, a couple of decent episodes a season didn't make for a particularly great series. Still, probably better than Voyager though.

This also sums up things well. When I heard there was to be a prequel series, I immediately thought arc-based stories/series like DS9 and they'd be heading in the right direction with the show.

The Romulan War mentioned in TOS ep "Balance of Terror?" Of course! The founding of The Federation? Duh! So they ignored both of these until it was too late (The Romulan arc in season 4 set up the war, the last eps hinted at The Federation's founding). Too little, too late. Berman was responsible for a lot of great Trek over the years, but he was in charge of the franchise way too long. Braga was around too long as well. By Enterprise, it was time for them to GO. They recycled tons of plots for Enterprise from all of the modern ST series.

I will admit I enjoyed the season long Xindi arc in season 3 tremendously until they ended it with the unbelievable WTF of Space Nazis. Why did it have to be Space Nazis? I was so disgusted I didn't watch season 4 until syndication. TO be honest, I missed many season 1 and 2 eps as well because I just didn't care until season 3. If I saw it, fine, if not, fine. It didn't really grab me except for Pflox. I knew from the pilot with the decon gel scenes they were going for the cheap, but I did hang in there somewhat.

Having seen season 4, I think it's better than seasons 1-2, maybe a hair better than season 3 once you get past the space Nazi wrap-up. But still....Space Nazis? Good God. It would have been better to have the Romulans and from there having the loose association of space faring allies engaging in the Romulan War to stop them from changing the time line...or something like that.
 
I'm currently slogging through Season 2, and rather surprisingly, it's not coming across as horrid as I remember. Probably because I already know how it all plays out (kind of like how, after reading Shatner's Star Trek novels, with Kirk alive and well in the 24th Century, Generations is a tad less infuriating). The bit with the Romulans is still a bit troubling, and I think is still going to require someone being an idiot to reconcile with "Balance of Terror".
 
I found Enterprise disappointing. Its been mentioned that they seemed to skip past the best parts of the past until it was too late. I hated the Xindi story, because it seemed to mock us. It was never mentioned before, I think an attack where 24 million people died would be mentioned at least once in the future. Nothing, So its just made up, which is dumb considering there were tons of things mentioned that would be more exciting to cover, like the war with the Romulans.

I also did not like the crew. I am a huge Scott Bacula fan, but I felt he was a poor choice for Capt, Archer, honestly he should have been the engineer, he is a funny laid back guy and he just seemed so up tight as capt. I would have gone with Michael Beihn, if you wanted Archer to be more serious. Its not like he is too busy and does not have excellent experience in Sci Fi.

I also found T'Pal as science officer, as stupid. It did not pay homage to Spock it ripped it off. I liked her a lot as a Vulcan as a member of the crew but make her something else. My vote, security officer, here is my thinking. The Vulcan's really are concerned about the humans first mission into deep space so they send in one of their best special forces agents to help the little ship out. She did know a bunch of fighting moves so it would have fit well. Make Hoshi the Science officer, she was a language expert, I am thinking a cultural anthropologist, which makes sense because there are a lot of different kinds of sciences needed for space exploration, not just micro biology and so forth. The officer in charge would just coordinate the disciplines for away missions.

Speaking of the Vulcans, why were they dicks again? I hated that, the pilot drove me nuts. I mean they seemed so determined to see us fail. That was so dumb, they had been helping us for 50 years. I see them as more concerned parents who care about the humans. And with Archer being all pissy, he came off as a brat, complaining that the Vulcan's didn't give us warp 5 engines, uhhh try earning it baby. I think that dynamic was weak considering there are closest allies. Thus I would see the Vulcan's concerned and provide a Vulcan officer as an observer on the Enterprise who can serve as an advisor, with orders to make sure the Enterprise survives not fails.

It could be historical in that it was the first time we conducted joint missions, maybe have the Enterprise join the Vulcan fleet from time to time, later on the Columbia and other Star fleet ships could have joined in leading to the Alliance against the Romulans. The success of the Enterprise would be how Archer is able to integrate Vulcan stuff, and later Andorians into a Earth ship, which is why Star Fleet is the Federations force, a history of cooperation.
 
I loved it. Great Sci-Fi...

Was better than DS9 (you know, that one that ripped off Babylon 5). And as for Voyager......meh...

ENT could of done so much to flesh out the back story. Sad to see it go...
 
My honest opinion... I enjoyed Season 4, but mainly for the fanwank. That said, though, I can't see how any real ENT fan could appreciate TATV as it struck me as a slap in the face of thisshow's fans by making it a weird appendix to "Pegasus" [TNG]. I liked the idea of the augment arc, and even how they used it to explain the Klingon's change, but the shows with Spiner and the Augments themselves were so painful to actually watch. I would have been interested in a 5th season.

As for earlier seasons, I was excited to see the pilot. I watched at a friend's house and everyone went to the kitchen cause dinner was ready just as Trip and T'Pol began their be-gelled fondling of each other. My only thought was "thank God the 8 year old just left the room!" So much for Trek as a family show. I would watch the show here and there while it was on the air. I do recall an episode where they went to a cowboy planet that was pretty cool. But overall, I can sum it up with this story: I was at a different friend's house, and everyone knows I'm a huge Trekkie. So someone poked his head into the room we were playing video games in and said, "Hey, Star Trek is on! wanna watch it?" "Sure!" I reply. I rush into the TV room eager to see some passable sci-fi and what do I find? "Enterprise?" I say with disappointment, "I thought you said Star Trek was on."

--Alex
 
The biggest disappointment for me is the god-awful theme song. I mean, really? Ridiculous.

I don't know that I've been able to get past that. I keep trying to watch an episode, but never make it all the way through.
 
It never lived up to its potential...founding of the Federation, the Romulan War...so much wasted. Instead we got a Klingon running through a cornfield. He's shot. We take him back to his homeworld. Is this the DISASTROUS first encounter with the Klingons that Picard alluded to in TNG??!! (I think it was "First Contact"--the episode not the movie.)

It went downhill from there with the snotty Vulcans and the Temporal Cold War. Quite frankly, "The Andorian Incident" would have made a better pilot with some more fleshing out done to it. Season Four started to tap this territory with the Vulcan/Andorian/Tellarite arcs but it was too little, too late. It just started getting interesting for me just when it got cancelled.

I have nothing against Scott Bakula. He was great in Quantum Leap. But the character of Archer was just too much of a whiner for me to take seriously as a captain. My token example is always "A Night in Sickbay." The Archer/T'Pol relationship always seemed a little forced to me. On the positive side, the friendship of Archer and Tucker from season one should have been expanded on in the following years. The emotional payoff of Trip's sacrifice in TATV (minus the TNG framing and some rewriting to cover the plot holes) would have been right up there with Spock's sacrifice.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top