What is your favorite female character from Voyager?

[rocketscientist]

The main problem of VOY imo was constantly and reliably missing opportunities when writing character development ... for *all* characters. This is especially painfully obvious when you contrast VOY with DS9, which was the main reason for my disappointment with VOY back in the 90s.

The only characters who got a slightly better treatment were Seven and the Doctor, no idea why.

Was is really that the showrunners and/or the authors were clueless, or because the studio powers forced a "110% NOT serialized, totally certified 110% reset button" policy on the authors? I have no idea.

I'm rewatching DS9 now with my kids who have never seen it. It is just so darn good. I like every single character (though my favorite will always be Garak).

I just cannot say the same for Voyager. I love Seven, Janeway, Tuvok, and the Doctor, and like Paris and B'lanna, but honestly I didn't mind Kes leaving and I wouldn't have minded if Harry and Chakotay had followed. I think it would've been great to get rid of more characters that didn't work and replace them with others. That would also underline the danger of the Delta Quadrant too.

And, Neelix, I truly wish he'd been spaced.

 

[rocketscientist]

This is about how I feel as well. We keep getting pretext and rationalizations, not reasons and explanations. Many in Hollywood are willing to work through the personal problems of their co-workers. The mental health aspect seems out of left field: I've seen no evidence that Lien could not work or could not work with others. The opposite seems to been the with the rest of the Voyager cast. The issue of not being able to write stories seems equally spurious, IMO. Kes was not the first, nor the last, attempt at a young, wise, and sexy character. Indeed, Seven of Nine was another iteration thereof. And Kes made a more natural fit in that mold than Dax: each year she comes at relationships in a new stage of life. It seems like they were setting up Season 4 to be the biological clock story. Season 5 is the 40 year old dealing with a teenager. Season 6 is middle age. Season 7 is the twilight years. Every season is a new challenge for Kes, and those challenges could evolve organically.

I never ever thought of Kes as a "sexy" character at all.

 

[Oddish]

I never ever thought of Kes as a "sexy" character at all.

Because they dressed her in normal clothes instead of catsuits that looked spray painted on?

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I never ever thought of Kes as a "sexy" character at all.

Look at her publicity photos at the time of launch. She compares well to several " It Girls" of the 90s: Jennie Garth, Christina Applegate, Kate Winslet.

 

[Lynx]

I understand this doesn’t fit your favored narrative, but it’s just blatantly untrue, because Kes was actually mentioned by name a number of times after the character exited the show. Namely in “Random Thoughts”, “Mortal Coil”, “Prey”, “The Voyager Conspiracy” and of course “Fury”. Note, also, that in almost all instances where she’s mentioned it’s a character lovingly reminiscing about her. Hardly them trying to “erase the character from everyone’s minds” or “pretend that she never existed” as you like to believe.

Even Mark and Janeway's dog was mentioned more than Kes was.

I believe the problem is that you are confusing Kes the character with Jennifer Lien the actress. Bringing her back to guest star on a dedicated episode (regardless of whether you like the episode or not; and trust me, we all know you don’t) is precisely what friends in their positions would do to help. If you don’t know what it means for an actor to get hired to do an episode of television, get paid for your work and get exposure, you don’t understand anything about Hollywood and how it works.

No, I'm not confusing Kes and Jennifer.
And bringing back an actress to destroy a character she was playing before getting fired is hardly any "help". In that case, why didn't they bring her back for the whole 7th season if they wanted to "help" instead of coming up with an insulting piece of crap which may have made her lost many of the fans she actually had?

This again is you seemingly not understanding how anything works in Hollywood. If they had said anything like you are suggesting here, it would have been the immediate end of her career. “She’s finding the filming schedule and the long days of work too stressful” — you seriously believe anyone would have hired her after that kind of statement from a former employer?

No, them not openly talking about her issues back then and just giving her the dignity of seemingly leaving the show in a sort of mutual agreement is a million times better than what you are suggesting. In an ideal world they would have been able to find a way of giving her the opportunity to seek help, get better and keep the job. But unfortunately that’s not how it always works in the real world. They very obviously cared about her as a human being, or else they wouldn’t have brought her back to the show to work with her again.

"She did find the filming scedule and the long days of work too stressful" is more and less what the creators of NCIS told us about Sasha Alexander when she left NCIS after two seasons.

Or more correctly, Sasha Alexander wanted to spend more time with her family which the filming schedule of NCIS didn't allow, a reason which the actress herself actually mentioned too.

And that didn't made any obstacles for her later on in her carreer when she had a main role in the series Rizzoli & Isles.

Of course thy could have come up with something better than "filming scedule and the long days of work too stressful" if they had been smart and wanted to avoid speculations about firing and foul play.

The point is that they lied about the reason for Jennifer's "leaving" and they lied about it twice. And recently they have came up with a third version, using Jennifer's recent problems as an excuse for what they did back then.

And the words “mutual agreement” means that there is foul play involved.

As for Hollywood, I'm well aware of the shady world behind the glossy curtain. I like to read biographies, you know.

"Empty city, it's calling your name
Wheel of fortune, sucking you into the game
It's a fatal attraction
That pulls you like a moth to the flame

Empty city, sitting waiting in the hills
Babylonian, promising all kinds of thrills
Here they all know what they want
And they chase it with a passion that kills

Empty city, what's easy come don't let it go
Count your money, every day it seems to grow
Build a wall around your dream, get a gun, don't let nobody close
Are you happy with the life that you chose?

She came in from the desert and the dust
And now she's trying to stay afloat on a crazy sea of lust
It's hard to love a city when that city has no heart
It'll rape your mind and sell your body
It'll tear your soul apart
Wooh, tear it apart
'Cos when you scratch through the surface
You won't find a damn thing underneath
And everybody's moving on
That's why I believe it's an empty city
Ooh it's an empty city, yeah"

"Empty City"
Thunder

 

[Oddish]

Sadly, Kes did not face this fate alone. Every character who wasn't in the main credits seemed to be effectively ignored throughout the series. Voyager was supposed to be a family, but it felt more like nine main characters, maybe ten with Naomi, and a plethora of uniformed nobodies. Even the ex-Maquis looked like everyone else, save their different rank insignia.

 

[tomalak301]

Sadly, Kes did not face this fate alone. Every character who wasn't in the main credits seemed to be effectively ignored throughout the series. Voyager was supposed to be a family, but it felt more like nine main characters, maybe ten with Naomi, and a plethora of uniformed nobodies. Even the ex-Maquis looked like everyone else, save their different rank insignia.

Justice for Carey. He did nothing wrong, got demoted, disappeared for 7 years and then came back and died before they made it home. Tough luck for that guy.

 

[Oddish]

Justice for Carey. He did nothing wrong, got demoted, disappeared for 7 years and then came back and died before they made it home. Tough luck for that guy.

Seriously. Not only was he demoted, but B'Elanna was promoted for assaulting him!

Seriously, if I'd been him, I'd have jumped ship at Planet 37's. No way I'd work under those conditions.

 

[tomalak301]

Seriously. Not only was he demoted, but B'Elanna was promoted for assaulting him!

Seriously, if I'd been him, I'd have jumped ship at Planet 37's. No way I'd work under those conditions.

I think that was a mistake that no one wanted to be left on the planet. It would have still shown some disagreements on the crew, and if you didn't know what to do with Carey after Season 1, letting him live with the locals would have been a nice compromise. Same with the Maquis from Learning Curve. Say thanks Tuvok for showing the ways of Starfleet but it just won't work and be on their way.

 

[Oddish]

Had I been writing VOY, I would have let Carey stay chief engineer for the first season, even developed him a bit as a foil to B'Elanna. Then, he and the problem Maquis stay on Planet 37's. With him, it's completely unexpected, almost a betrayal. By then, B'Elanna's settled down a bit and can take charge in his absence.

After that, they can have the whole One Big Happy Starfleet Family they threw at us: the people who didn't fit in are gone. Except for Suder, who didn't fit in either group.

 

[fireproof78]

Sadly, Kes did not face this fate alone. Every character who wasn't in the main credits seemed to be effectively ignored throughout the series. Voyager was supposed to be a family, but it felt more like nine main characters, maybe ten with Naomi, and a plethora of uniformed nobodies. Even the ex-Maquis looked like everyone else, save their different rank insignia.

Indeed, and even in the main cast they didn't always write to their strengths. Tom became the Swiss Army Knife of the week for some problems, while nanoprobes did heavy lifting other times.

People go, "oh you just want conflict all the time with the Maquis and Starfleet." No! I want you to use your premise to its fullest. Starfleet and Maquis working together despite differences. Carey working next to Torres after mending fences. Don't just pull a Paris/ Chakotay hand shake resolution.

 

[Oddish]

And for crying out loud, don't reduce everyone not in the main cast to interchangeable clones.

 

[Lynx]

Justice for Carey. He did nothing wrong, got demoted, disappeared for 7 years and then came back and died before they made it home. Tough luck for that guy.

That's another destruction of a good character which really annoys me.

 

[at Quark's]

Well, let's see.

I never particularly liked the character concept of 7 of 9. To me the notion of 'emotionless being (or being with repressed emotions) exploring what it means to be human' had become tired by the time she appeared. We already had Spock, Data, and even within Voyager we already had the EMH doing just that, and 7 seemed just a minor variation on that theme. That 7's role was somewhat enjoyable at all was mainly thanks to Jeri Ryan proving to be a terrific actress who made the most of it, even despite the annoying catsuit.

Kes was a sweet character, but unfortunately the writers apparently didn't really know what to do with her after the 'Kes explores her amazing psychic powers' source of stories dried up.

B' Elanna was OK I suppose, even though I thought sometimes she had a bit too much 'angst' and angriness within her.

Seska was a great enemy, one I wish they had kept around for a bit longer. On the other hand, it probably would have been hard to come up with a credible storyline of a nemesis that kept following voyager for 7 years.

Samantha was a nice secondary role, but as far as I'm concerned not really in the competition.

Janeway was all over the place, and even though I had some problem with the character, especially in the later years (where she became the Great Invincible Captain Janeway), all things considered I think I liked her character the most.

Voted accordingly.

 

[Lynx]

Well, let's see.

I never particularly liked the character concept of 7 of 9. To me the notion of 'emotionless being (or being with repressed emotions) exploring what it means to be human' had become tired by the time she appeared. We already had Spock, Data, and even within Voyager we already had the EMH doing just that, and 7 seemed just a minor variation on that theme. That 7's role was somewhat enjoyable at all was mainly thanks to Jeri Ryan proving to be a terrific actress who made the most of it, even despite the annoying catsuit.

Kes was a sweet character, but unfortunately the writers apparently didn't really know what to do with her after the 'Kes explores her amazing psychic powers' source of stories dried up.

B' Elanna was OK I suppose, even though I thought sometimes she had a bit too much 'angst' and angriness within her.

Seska was a great enemy, one I wish they had kept around for a bit longer. On the other hand, it probably would have been hard to come up with a credible storyline of a nemesis that kept following voyager for 7 years.

Samantha was a nice secondary role, but as far as I'm concerned not really in the competition.

Janeway was all over the place, and even though I had some problem with the character, especially in the later years (where she became the Great Invincible Captain Janeway), all things considered I think I liked her character the most.

Voted accordingly.

I must admit that I didn't like Seven back then.

Mostly because she replaced Kes but also because of how those in charge and Trek media rammed her down my throat by those endlesss comments about how "Seven saved the show", the whole "the sexy Borg" concept and all those Trek magazines with tons of pictures and posters of her when Kes was totally forgotten.

maybe stupid of me but I've seen worse cases, among them a fan of a certain heavy rock band who posted a lot on a fan forum and never could accept that the guitar player who was his favorite in the band quit (or was fired) and while still praising the music the band did when this guitar player was in the band, constantly trashed the new guitar player and the songs they did when he joined the band.

As for Seven, I realized how stupid I was by criticizing her back then. In recent years I have started to like her better. I was actually happy to see her in PIC.

Not to mention that I like Ryan's performance in Boston Public and most of all when she showed up in NCIS as one of Gibb's ex-wives!

As for Kes, I like the character for many reasons, not only her beauty but also because the character is smart, curious, brave, determined and strong-willed. There must be something wron wiyth writers who can't write good stories for such a character.

I like B'Elanna Torres too. When it comes to good female action characters, she's among the best.

Seska was a great villain and I wish that they didn't had killed her off. She should have been a prisoner on Voyager and messed up some things now and then.

I liked Janeway in the first three seasons. I liked that she really cared for her crew and was ready to sacrifice herself if necessary to save a crewmember. Later on she became a bit weird, due to bad writing but I still like the character.

 

[at Quark's]

I must admit that I didn't like Seven back then.

Mostly because she replaced Kes but also because of how those in charge and Trek media rammed her down my throat by those endlesss comments about how "Seven saved the show", the whole "the sexy Borg" concept and all those Trek magazines with tons of pictures and posters of her when Kes was totally forgotten.

maybe stupid of me but I've seen worse cases, among them a fan of a certain heavy rock band who posted a lot on a fan forum and never could accept that the guitar player who was his favorite in the band quit (or was fired) and while still praising the music the band did when this guitar player was in the band, constantly trashed the new guitar player and the songs they did when he joined the band.

As for Seven, I realized how stupid I was by criticizing her back then. In recent years I have started to like her better. I was actually happy to see her in PIC.

Not to mention that I like Ryan's performance in Boston Public and most of all when she showed up in NCIS as one of Gibb's ex-wives!

I never hated the character itself, I just didn't like the character concept for the reasons I stated (e.g. it had nothing to do with her replacing Kes). Still don't, though I'll agree they allowed the character to evolve in a positive way in Picard. But Jeri made the most of it, absolutely, in both series.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Mostly because she replaced Kes but also because of how those in charge and Trek media rammed her down my throat by those endlesss comments about how "Seven saved the show", the whole "the sexy Borg" concept and all those Trek magazines with tons of pictures and posters of her when Kes was totally forgotten.

I never hated the character itself, I just didn't like the character concept for the reasons I stated (e.g. it had nothing to do with her replacing Kes). Still don't, though I'll agree they allowed the character to evolve in a positive way in Picard. But Jeri made the most of it, absolutely, in both series.

I was never entirely enamored with either character because, like I said, they were the latest versions of the young, wise, sexy type the producers constantly sought. From the days when Roddenberry developed the original series, there have been efforts to make it safe to sexualize women by making them smart and professional. Dax was the type they would go with: a young woman, always modelesque (not just Hollywood beautiful), who possessed wisdom far beyond her apparent age. Dax: a mind hundreds of years old in a sexy young body. Kes: an ingenou who is always more mature because her development is accelerated. Seven of Nine: the possessor of a vast cybernetic intelligence that is stuffed into a figure enhancing uniform out of necessity. Finally, T'Pol is female Spock. Second verse, same as the first. IMO, none of them are great actors. Ryan is the best among them, but I have found that she lacks range in her post Voyager career. Her best episodes are those where she confronts her past enforcing Borg policy. Regardless, the notion of Seven "saving the show" seems more like self-congratulations, a bunch of juvenile guys patting themselves on the back for putting one over on the teacher.