What is your fav under appreciated DS9 episode?
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Very good choices there
.I would agree completely with Honor among Thieves. Nor the Battle to the Strong is more a different kind of underapprieciated though. I haven't seen anyone say its a bad episode. (though maybe they just talk about it behind my back, because they're too scared to say it to my face.
)Seriously, though, most people put it to be a very good, realistic episode that is a highlight of DS9's strongest season. It's just only a few people like me, who elevate it too the highest level, and think its up there with DS9 classics like The Visitor, Duet, and ItPM. That's the kind of underappreiciatedness it receives, good, but not generally thought of well enough.
I see "Ties of Blood and Water" as being in the absolute upper tier of episodes (man, I almost wrote "tear"...what a Freudian slip!). Same with "Second Skin," though that one seems to get more credit than "Ties" does.
I like them both. It's true that I don't usually think of them as "best of the best," but for me they definitely occupy that second tier of very good episodes that I enjoy rewatching, Ties even more so than Second Skin, actually.
We could have used another look at Kira's relationship to Ghemor between these two episodes, that is probably my one complaint, at least a B-story inserted somewhere to build up to Ties, but whatever, it's still a great episode.
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Second Skin is my absolute favourite episode of DS9. Good stuff!
I found it a little bit moving the first time I saw it. It's certainly in my top 10, maybe 5. I'd take it over The Siege of...er...whatever planet it was any day (my mind immediately thought SR-388, but that's Metroid I think).
Very good choices there
I would agree completely with Honor among Thieves. Nor the Battle to the Strong is more a different kind of underapprieciated though. I haven't seen anyone say its a bad episode. (though maybe they just talk about it behind my back, because they're too scared to say it to my face.
Seriously, though, most people put it to be a very good, realistic episode that is a highlight of DS9's strongest season. It's just only a few people like me, who elevate it too the highest level, and think its up there with DS9 classics like The Visitor, Duet, and ItPM. That's the kind of underappreiciatedness it receives, good, but not generally thought of well enough.
In the same way, I'd call Hard Time underappreciated. I've never seen anyone call it a bad episode, but it's probably my favourite DS9 episode yet isn't quite as rated as ITPM or The Visitor.
I would also have liked to see something in between them, too...at least in my own fanfic, I assumed that Kira and Ghemor might not have seen each other or necessarily spoken by subspace, but I figured they WERE communicating by some secured method. Their statements suggest that said communication would not have been the most reliable (given that they were having to keep their ears to the ground for secondhand evidence of what the other was up to, many times), and I think for Ghemor's safety this makes sense...but I don't think all contact ceased.
I also think that there were words that passed between Kira and Ghemor in the shuttle back to DS9 that day, and possibly in the infirmary, that also explain the closeness of the relationship. And I may be completely wrong since we never heard about it...but it's my personal feeling that Ghemor insisted on being there when Kira regained consciousness after her surgery (just as a biological parent might).
Still, even with that...I consider them first-tier episodes, without a doubt. (Considering that some of what's on the typical first tier I do NOT rate as highly as some, there's room.
)In my opinion, Take Me Out To The Holosuite was a very good one. It not only shows all the characters interacting great, but it also gives a glimpse into Sisko's youth which shows his humanity more. The only things I feel is missing from this one is Garak and Vic. I can only imagine what Garak would have brought to the episode.
One Little Ship is also a fav for me because it shows Worfs sense of humor and Odo/Quark banning together for a humorous moment.
One Little Ship is also a fav for me because it shows Worfs sense of humor and Odo/Quark banning together for a humorous moment.
I would also have liked to see something in between them, too...at least in my own fanfic, I assumed that Kira and Ghemor might not have seen each other or necessarily spoken by subspace, but I figured they WERE communicating by some secured method. Their statements suggest that said communication would not have been the most reliable (given that they were having to keep their ears to the ground for secondhand evidence of what the other was up to, many times), and I think for Ghemor's safety this makes sense...but I don't think all contact ceased.
I also think that there were words that passed between Kira and Ghemor in the shuttle back to DS9 that day, and possibly in the infirmary, that also explain the closeness of the relationship. And I may be completely wrong since we never heard about it...but it's my personal feeling that Ghemor insisted on being there when Kira regained consciousness after her surgery (just as a biological parent might).
Still, even with that...I consider them first-tier episodes, without a doubt. (Considering that some of what's on the typical first tier I do NOT rate as highly as some, there's room.
I think all of what you say is quite plausible. I also think Ties works well regardless of the apparently intermittent and often indirect contact between the two since Second Skin. That's partly because the bond created during their first meeting is quite strong, as I was recently reminded when I rewatched that episode. It's interesting in the sense that their mutual affection develps despite Kira never giving in to Entek's (sp?) deception.
Regardless, this is a case where I think the relationship had enough complexity and potential to warrant another episode or B-story focusing on it, which possibly would have made Ties even better, though it is still an episode I thoroughly enjoy. In a sense, I think DS9 still suffers a bit from the reset button mentality in season 3: the writers felt they needed to resolve everything over the course of a single episode, whereas Kira's relationship with Ghemor could easily have warranted some follow-up material later in the season. For example, Bareil and Winn are negociating a peace treaty with Cardassia a bit later on, which of course ends in Bareil's death and Kira's loss. This is a storyline that could have involved Ghemor in any number of interesting ways, as an advisor to Bareil and Winn, or as a father to Kira, or both.
From the first few seasons I loved all the standards that everybody loves(Duet, The Maquis I/II, etc.), but I think there were a few underappreciated gems hiding amongst the generally poorer early season episodes of the show (not poor—just poorer than the later seasons of DS9).
The Wire—While not the first Garek/Bashir episode, I think it is the first episode to fully demonstrate the writers getting a firm handle on who they wanted Garek to be. Especially when looked at from the point of view of knowing how much of what Garek said—even half mad w/ pain and withdrawal—was a lie. I think possibly the best Garek episode in the series. This is also one of the few early episodes that do not pose Bashir as completly unlikable--it took a great deal of trial and error before they really figured out how to play his character on screen.
The Collaborator—I don’t know if this is really “underappreciated”, but it is an episode I hear almost nothing about and is one of my favorites from the early series. I hold it up as one of the main reasons I site for my love of DS9 when speaking to Trek fans that did not like DS9. This episode could never have worked on any other Trek. It was dark and jagged and beautiful and pure DS9.
Whispers—Of all the O’Brien must suffer episodes, only Hard Time had as much effect on me. More than perhaps any other episode (except maybe the above mentioned) this episode was propelled purely by Colm Meaney’s ability to convey real, tangible emotion and make the audience feel it along w/ him—and he acted the hell out of it. Perfect performance and while it may have just been me being slow when I first watched it, the twist completely threw me.
Progress—I am a little more hesitant about this episode as I feel I love it despite its rather major problems, rather than because of some intrinsic awesomeness That being said, whether by chance or design there was something touching about the way the episode plays that is in neither the script or direction, but the characters and the actors breathing life into them. The conflict is simple—on one side an old man refusing to leave the home he built w/ his own hands despite society saying he must move for his own safety; and on the other Kira, set up as the rebel forced to realize that after you win the rebellion, you can’t avoid becoming at least a little like what you rebelled against. If it sounds bland and cliché, it’s because it is. We have seen these plots before and it simply doesn’t have as much impact as the script seems to think it should.
That being said—I love this episode, and it has everything to do w/ Nana Visitor and Brian Keith (who plays the old farmer). They play it w/ perfect emotional pitch that makes me care for both sides despite myself. As a side note, the script and director of this episode originally wanted Mullibok to come across as manipulating Kira for his own benefit, playing on her fears that she is becoming what she fought against, and for her to more or less fall for it hook, line, and sinker until the episode conclusion when she “does the right thing” and removes him. After reading the final script both Keith and Visitor lobbied the director to allow them to play the episode softer and to make both Kira and Mullibok more morally grey. In my opinion that decision ultimately elevated this episode from run-of-the-mill season one filler to one of my favorite character studies of the series.
There are also plenty of underappreciated gems in the later seasons too, but I will have to look up the titles as I haven’t watched past season 2 in a few years.
The Wire—While not the first Garek/Bashir episode, I think it is the first episode to fully demonstrate the writers getting a firm handle on who they wanted Garek to be. Especially when looked at from the point of view of knowing how much of what Garek said—even half mad w/ pain and withdrawal—was a lie. I think possibly the best Garek episode in the series. This is also one of the few early episodes that do not pose Bashir as completly unlikable--it took a great deal of trial and error before they really figured out how to play his character on screen.
The Collaborator—I don’t know if this is really “underappreciated”, but it is an episode I hear almost nothing about and is one of my favorites from the early series. I hold it up as one of the main reasons I site for my love of DS9 when speaking to Trek fans that did not like DS9. This episode could never have worked on any other Trek. It was dark and jagged and beautiful and pure DS9.
Whispers—Of all the O’Brien must suffer episodes, only Hard Time had as much effect on me. More than perhaps any other episode (except maybe the above mentioned) this episode was propelled purely by Colm Meaney’s ability to convey real, tangible emotion and make the audience feel it along w/ him—and he acted the hell out of it. Perfect performance and while it may have just been me being slow when I first watched it, the twist completely threw me.
Progress—I am a little more hesitant about this episode as I feel I love it despite its rather major problems, rather than because of some intrinsic awesomeness That being said, whether by chance or design there was something touching about the way the episode plays that is in neither the script or direction, but the characters and the actors breathing life into them. The conflict is simple—on one side an old man refusing to leave the home he built w/ his own hands despite society saying he must move for his own safety; and on the other Kira, set up as the rebel forced to realize that after you win the rebellion, you can’t avoid becoming at least a little like what you rebelled against. If it sounds bland and cliché, it’s because it is. We have seen these plots before and it simply doesn’t have as much impact as the script seems to think it should.
That being said—I love this episode, and it has everything to do w/ Nana Visitor and Brian Keith (who plays the old farmer). They play it w/ perfect emotional pitch that makes me care for both sides despite myself. As a side note, the script and director of this episode originally wanted Mullibok to come across as manipulating Kira for his own benefit, playing on her fears that she is becoming what she fought against, and for her to more or less fall for it hook, line, and sinker until the episode conclusion when she “does the right thing” and removes him. After reading the final script both Keith and Visitor lobbied the director to allow them to play the episode softer and to make both Kira and Mullibok more morally grey. In my opinion that decision ultimately elevated this episode from run-of-the-mill season one filler to one of my favorite character studies of the series.
There are also plenty of underappreciated gems in the later seasons too, but I will have to look up the titles as I haven’t watched past season 2 in a few years.
kitsune
Captain
I forgot about that one, it's one of my favorites, because I have an interest in fiction that involves size-changing
Here's a trivia thread about the many episodes of Trek that featured this trope:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=48342
Rules of Acquistion or any ferengi episode
Past Prolognue
Collaborator
Past Prolognue
Collaborator
The Duras' sisters' cameo is pretty hilarious. Garak trying to sell pink silk lingerie to two badass Klingon chicks? I half expect them to tear it in half in front of Garak's face. Classic.
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