It will always be the version that Robert Wise wanted...the DE. Which is not the "original" version.
RAMA
What Is the Definitive Version of TMP?
- Thread starter Joanna McCoy-Kirk
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It will always be the version that Robert Wise wanted...the DE. Which is not the "original" version.
RAMA
I was, of course, being facetious and I aplologise if I spawned an irrelevant debate! The scene between Sulu and Ilia is almost completely superfluous (it goes some way to establish that Ilia's pheromones can affect males, but that is only implied in the script anyway). However, I like quite a few of the superfluous scenes, including the full debate between Kirk and Bones.
Sulu isn't gay. He might be bisexual but then so might everybody else on the ship. Either way, I can foresee the potential for some embarassment without the strategic placement of a PADD.
That's very true. If you look at the wider information about Deltans, they become even more interesting. Deltans affect each others brain chemistry (whether through the reciplient's physiological reaction to the pheromones or through some psychic ability to manipulate their brain chemistry). Ilia uses pheromone manipulation or some kind of empathic ability to relieve Chekov's pain. Zinaida in the TWoK novel uses a similar technique to try and help the scientists resist Khan's torture and even assists one of them to suicide. It's a shame that the species wasn't developed more. Much more interesting that Betazoids!
I don't care what some old man thought he wanted some twenty years ago. The TC is the original version and the SLV ist he extended version ... both are legit, the DE is not!
I think it's very necessary! "Discussing the the subject of Command Fitness" is the whole point of this discussion! Why would anyone cut it?
So the SLV that was put together by editors anonymous, with no input from the director, is a legitimate version, but the DC, which Robert Wise at least had some input into, is not? Right...
Well, the Director seemed to disagree with you. Twice, I may add.
That one was actually a mistake. Sure, a lot of hand animation would be done on twos (or fours, or what have you) to save effort, but effects work in a live-action major motion picture? Not a chance. As you can see in the movie, where the hand-animated effects like the transporter beams and V'Ger's transformation rays at the end are all on ones.
Christopher is just parroting what the guys who worked on the DE said. I've pointed out before that the idea of shooting on twos was bone-headed and not how VFX animation was done then, as proven by the animation that appeared in the original film which was shot on ones.
In all fairness, however, a lot of the energy effects were done with lasers and light sources shot through moires, or multiple exposures of backlit elements shot on Trumbull's "Compsy" system. Most of the hand-drawn stuff was the V'ger lightning and so forth (although some of that was shot using actual electric arcs, too).
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Fair enough. I still think the theatrical edit is a mess, and very rough in places, but it was in good enough shape to be released theatrically.
I'm sure happy more work was done on the film for the DE, though (even though, as others have indicated, that work wasn't perfect, either).
Paramount rushes out an incomplete film to meet a deadline, a film the director isn't finished or happy with. It's later expanded with more unfinished footage with no input from the director. Finally twenty-two years later the director gets to have input into making the film as close to what he intended as possible. And while it mayn't be exactly as he originally intended it's closer than it has ever been.
That pretty well makes the DE the definitive version because that's what was originally intended but for Paramount's impatience.
It may nor be the one you prefer, but what you prefer is irrelevant to the issue.
^^^I think we can't call it "impatience" since it was a contractually required deadline to release the film on Dec. 7th, and the film should have been easily finished by the deadline had not the production run into so many problems (they had 12 months of post time). That Wise wasn't allowed or asked to recut it after the initial release is probably because, at that point, Paramount didn't want to spend any more money on an already over-budget production. The DE was likely made possible because digitial video editing and VFX lowered the cost to a point where they were willing to spend a little money on it. I'm not defending these decisions, but I understand then from a purely business standpoint.
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I'm waiting for the Special Longer Version to come out on Blu-ray.
There was another Robert Wise film, Star!, that seems to get longer every time they re-release it. It must be about as long as that 25-hour Andy Warhol film by now.
I rather admire Ridley Scott for the fact that the "director's cut" of Alien released on DVD was a minute shorter than the original theatrical version. 
I'm waiting for the Special Longer Version to come out on Blu-ray.
I'm completely serious when I say I would buy that.
I have the 2 disc DVD of the DE and I snatched up a nice used copy of the 6 movie DVD set that came out with the theatrical cuts of 1, 2 and 6. I would gladly pay for a Bluray set with the theatrical, DE and SLV included.
There is of course the historical significance of having the theatrical available to buy, and the DE was a much needed improvement, but the SLV is also what a lot of folks like myself grew up watching. I had the official Paramount VHS of TMP: SLV and there's so many character moments that were lost in both the theatrical and the DE, moments that define the movie for me. When watching the other versions, it really feels like they're the "wrong" versions, even though the SLV is a bit of a fudge itself.
On the other side of that, for the longest time my only copy of Wrath of Khan was taped off an ABC tv showing, and it has the extra scenes with Scotty's nephew and the different dialog between the scientists of Regula 1. I watched that copy dozens of times (I had all the commercial breaks memorized for fast forwarding) and again, those extra character moments came to define that film for me. I was very disappointed that the first DVD release of TWOK was the theatrical, and gladly double dipped on the 2 disc set to get something closer to the version I grew up with.
As for the definitive version of TMP? I can deal with the DE being "definitive", but I can also accept in my head the existence of two other versions, so I would gladly buy a multiple-cut version. Not to get this thread too far off course, but I would be okay with owning Blurays of both the Special Edition and original theatrical versions of the Star Wars trilogy. My brain can accept them sitting side by side on the shelf.
I'd buy the Special Longer Edition on DVD - is it out? I have it around here on VHS somewhere, and I think my VCR even still works.
I rather admire Ridley Scott for the fact that the "director's cut" of Alien released on DVD was a minute shorter than the original theatrical version.
Oliver Stone did that with Alexander, too. That is, he did that before he changed his mind and decided to release a much longer, second director's cut of the movie.
What I most enjoy about the director's cut of Alien is Ridley Scott's introduction where he completely admits that the theatrical version was his director's cut and that calling the new version that was only a marketing ploy.
Only the theatrical cut is available on Bluray. The DE and theatrical are on DVD. The SLV is not available on any modern format, pretty sure it was just VHS and LD.
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