What is a Commander doing commanding a Space Station?

[Mark_Nguyen]

Re: DS9's population, there are various reports from the original show writer's bible that the station's complement would be about 200, mostly Bajoran. Starfleet's presence would number around fifty on top of that, plus whatever families are along for the ride. In later seasons the number had obviously ballooned, with references to DS9 being home to 900 Starfleet officers in the seventh season ("Field of Fire"), plus who knows how many Bajorans running the place or Klingons stationed there as part of Martok's entourage. At least we know that volumetrically, the station was hardly hurting for space.

Memory Alpha notes that the station had up to 2,000 crew (but no reference), with a carrying capacity of 7,000 (probably from the DS9 Technical Manual).

Mark

 

[GNDN18]

Hansen commanded Earth Outpost 4.

Hansen was a Commander.

Earth Outpost 4 was a space station. In deep space.

 

[The Wormhole]

did consider Sisko as de facto 'higher than a captain' by the end of the series. Ordinarily, I don't think captains get to lead huge task forces in war. Why he wasn't officially promoted, I don't know. Perhaps his promotion to captain was still too recent, and there are minimum time spans between successive promotions in starfleet?

Rapid promotions are a reality during wartime. The only reason Sisko wasn't promoted is because Berman forbade it.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Rapid promotions are a reality during wartime. The only reason Sisko wasn't promoted is because Berman forbade it.

Did he? I don't doubt Berman would have opposed it, but I am not aware of any effort to elevate Sisko. I think Behr was always of the opinion that Star Trek was about the captain.

 

[The Wormhole]

Did he? I don't doubt Berman would have opposed it, but I am not aware of any effort to elevate Sisko. I think Behr was always of the opinion that Star Trek was about the captain.

It isn't that Behr thought Star trek was about the captain. He did object back in the third season, particularly after Voyager was launched that Sisko was the only lead who did not hold the actual rank of Captain, and that led to his eventual promotion in The Adversary. Behr wanted Sisko promoted during the war, indeed the original reason Behr planned for Sisko being reassigned to the starbase and Dax being given command during the occupation arc was that Sisko would be promoted to Admiral. But Berman objected, because "Star Trek is about the captain" and cited Kirk being demoted back to captain in the movies as precedent, so Sisko ended up becoming Admiral Ross's aide instead.

 

[Trekboy1993]

Would an Admiral board see Sisko fit to hold flag rank? Let's think he was rude to Picard who was a Senior Officer, Was hardly a team player, disobeyed orders, committed war crimes actually I'm shocked he wasn't booted out of Starfleet.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Would an Admiral board see Sisko fit to hold flag rank? Let's think he was rude to Picard who was a Senior Officer, Was hardly a team player, disobeyed orders, committed war crimes actually I'm shocked he wasn't booted out of Starfleet.

Starfleet's standards aren't all that stringent. One Big Hero moment and all is forgiven.

 

[GNDN18]

Would an Admiral board see Sisko fit to hold flag rank? Let's think he was rude to Picard who was a Senior Officer, Was hardly a team player, disobeyed orders, committed war crimes actually I'm shocked he wasn't booted out of Starfleet.

Sounds like Halsey and King when you put it that way.

 

[The Wormhole]

Was hardly a team player,

Quite the contrary, Sisko has always been a "team player." Even in Emissary when he didn't want to be there he still made an effort to establish a working relationship with Kira, Odo and even Quark.

disobeyed orders

Yeah, about that. Here's a relevant line of dialogue from The Die is Cast on the matter of disobeying orders:

TODDMAN [on monitor]: You may be interested to know I've decided not to file charges against anyone aboard the Defiant.
SISKO: Thank you, sir.
TODDMAN [on monitor]: But if you pull a stunt like that again I'll court martial you or I'll promote you. Either way you'll be in a lot of trouble.

Emphasis mine. Disobeying an order apparently makes you a contender for promotion in Starfleet. Indeed, five episodes later Sisko was promoted to Captain.

I'm shocked he wasn't booted out of Starfleet.

I'm shocked he wasn't promoted to Admiral sooner.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Regarding Bajoran ranks, I always assumed that Kira and Sisko were pretty much even in the rank structure:
Starfleet = Militia
Ensign = Ensign
Lieutenant (jg) = Second Lieutenant
Lieutenant - First Lieutenant
Lt Commander = Captain
Commander = Major
Captain = Colonel

It was only the fact that Starfleet were administrators of the station that he outranked her. But that's just my view on it.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Ironically, being like Picard would put you on the slow track to the admiralty. If Memory Alpha is to be believed, he has been stuck at captain for 45 years.

 

[The Wormhole]

I always assumed in the seventh season Kira was in fact a Lt. Colonel since in the Final Chapter arc when she was given a Starfleet commission, her rank was Commander. In the US, Commander and Lt. Colonel are equal ranks.

Ironically, being like Picard would put you on the slow track to the admiralty. If Memory Alpha is to be believed, he has been stuck at captain for 45 years.

Well, Picard was offered a promotion in late season 1 of TNG which he turned down. Probably a good move there, as if he had accepted it he likely would have become a host to the Conspiracy Parasites. Then in Generations Kirk told him not to accept a promotion which according to the novels, Picard took to heart.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Regarding Bajoran ranks, I always assumed that Kira and Sisko were pretty much even in the rank structure:
Starfleet = Militia
Ensign = Ensign
Lieutenant (jg) = Second Lieutenant
Lieutenant - First Lieutenant
Lt Commander = Captain
Commander = Major
Captain = Colonel

It was only the fact that Starfleet were administrators of the station that he outranked her. But that's just my view on it.

Ideally,they may have been equivalent in rank, but context and expertise would have a lot of say in who wields more authority. In the US and UK--both nations with extensive blue-water navies--a captain probably yields more resources than her/his equivalent in the army, a colonel, but a Marine Corps colonel would yield less power than that because of the limited scope of the branch. In other countries, the army colonel would have more power than the captain, even if the latter were not technically outranked. Kira would have been considered an infantry specialist and a political attache, so even when she had the equivalent rank as Sisko, would probably still have had less authority.

That said,it seems like Kira was really running the station from the beginning of season 7 to the point she was reassigned to the training mission. Even when dealing with Solok, I don't get a clear sense that Sisko is acting as the station's commander. He's running the war.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Regarding Bajoran ranks, I always assumed that Kira and Sisko were pretty much even in the rank structure:
Starfleet = Militia
Ensign = Ensign
Lieutenant (jg) = Second Lieutenant
Lieutenant - First Lieutenant
Lt Commander = Captain
Commander = Major
Captain = Colonel

It was only the fact that Starfleet were administrators of the station that he outranked her. But that's just my view on it.

There's evidence to suggest that you're at least half right. The Militia does have Ensigns so Junior Officers are likely Ensigns, Second Lieutenants and (First) Lieutenants rather than Second and First Lieutenants and (Army) Captains.

Ideally,they may have been equivalent in rank, but context and expertise would have a lot of say in who wields more authority. In the US and UK--both nations with extensive blue-water navies--a captain probably yields more resources than her/his equivalent in the army, a colonel, but a Marine Corps colonel would yield less power than that because of the limited scope of the branch. In other countries, the army colonel would have more power than the captain, even if the latter were not technically outranked. Kira would have been considered an infantry specialist and a political attache, so even when she had the equivalent rank as Sisko, would probably still have had less authority.

That's a fair point.

Equivalencies for Senior Officers would appear to be Major and two or three different grades of Colonel (gold insignia (possibly "Field Colonel", worn by Day; gold insignia with added band, worn by Lenaris Holem) or silver insignia, worn by Kira Nerys). Either Kira's or Lenaris' 'colonel' rank may correspond to the appointment of Colonel-Commandant (roughly the same as a modern Brigadier or Commodore) as the Militia appears to only have Generals and Overgenerals (semi-canonical only, likely equivalent to Field Marshal or General of the Army).

 

[Trekboy1993]

Star Trek really over and under-exaggerates the ranks there was no way a LCDR would be in Command of a Ship as large as a Nebula, no way a Commander or Captain would be put in Charge of a Space Station, No reason for a Captain to command a Defiant class a LCDR hell even a LT would have sufficed, and an Intrepid-class had no reason to be commanded by a Captain a CMDR would have sufficed. Take a look at modern Navies: A Nimitz Class Aircraft Carrier is commanded by a Captain and has roughly 5000 personal (Roughly that of a Galaxy Class), A Frigate and Destroyer roughly 147-157 (Roughly the crew size of Voyager) is commanded by a Commander which also command Subs as well, and Corvettes with crews of around 127 are commanded by LT. Commanders

 

[mos6507]

Hansen commanded Earth Outpost 4.
View attachment 3523
Hansen was a Commander.
View attachment 3524
Earth Outpost 4 was a space station. In deep space.

Hmm.. Canon. So iron-clad. How's that ROMII doing these days?

 

[The Wormhole]

Hmm.. Canon. So iron-clad. How's that ROMII doing these days?

Given how close it is to Romulus, probably destroyed by Hobus.

 

[Tosk]

Take a look at modern Navies

Why? It has no bearing on how it works in Trek.

Star Trek really over and under-exaggerates the ranks

Says you.

 

[E-DUB]

Starfleet probably has an award they give when someone disobeys orders and it works out for the best. Say, like Picard in "First Contact".

 

[The Wormhole]

Starfleet probably has an award they give when someone disobeys orders and it works out for the best. Say, like Picard in "First Contact".

I'm sure Admiral Hayes ended up apologizing to Picard and taking one hell of a chewing out from his superiors when the captain he forbade from going arrived anyway and won the battle in two minutes.