What impact will the Dominion War have on Picard?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Jayson1, Jan 19, 2020.

  1. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This is something I have been thinking about. The way they have been talking about the synch attack as the Federations 9/11 it made me think. Wouldn't the Federation already had it's 9/11 when the Dominion War happened. Is the body count going to be so much hugher in this recent threat to the Federation that it exceeds all the bad things that happened in the Dominion War?

    I know the Federation has been in a few wars over time and while the Dominion War didn't last long. Only 2 years from what I understand the damage was pretty bad especially for something that only happened in 2 years. Earth was even attacked by the Breen. Betazoid was occupied and I think other planets were also taken over.

    One difference I do see though and maybe this is the difference is you were left with a Dominion/Jem Haddar issue afterwords. The all returned to the Gamma Quadrant so it wasn't like you had rogue Jem Haddar out their. Carddissia was in ruins. Klingons were in no place to wage war. I suppose the Breen were still a concern and so would the Romulans but of course they would not be one after Nemesis. How many years was their between the end of the Dominion War and this new 9/11?


    Jason
     
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  2. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Assuming Children of Mars is 2384 like the behind the scenes sources indicated, that's nine years after the end of the Dominion War.
     
  3. KennyB

    KennyB I have spoken............ Moderator

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    In season 1 I don't think we will see much at all............
     
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  4. Crewman6

    Crewman6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I suspect you're right. If anything, I'd expect a very fleeting reference, a la "Nemesis."
     
  5. KennyB

    KennyB I have spoken............ Moderator

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    Yup---I was going to say maybe a throwaway line. With 10 episodes and a slower pace they have enough to deal with this season.
     
  6. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The throwaway line will probably be like something summarizing Musiker's background in an exposition scene, and they'll say she was stationed at XYZ in the Dominion War and did ABC.

    I'll be surprised if we hear anything more, not of that variety, in this season.
     
  7. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If it's only 9 years that doesn't seem like much time for people get over. It will be a weird question depending on what level of problems the Federation is dealing with that you got to wonder. Why did the Romulan Refuge situation become such issue that it basically breaks Picard but the Dominion War didn't effect him as much? Of course just trying to figure what the Enterprise was doing during the Dominion War is something. I know this is a different show so lots of this will have to be figured out in head canon but I hope they at least throw us a bone with the Dominion War's impact on the Federation and what it all meant in the end.


    Jason
     
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  8. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Commodore Commodore

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    Personally I think the Dominion War might be one of the many reasons given for a militaristic and isolationist Federation in 2399. The previous 30-odd years haven't been kind to the Federation. The Borg attacked at least twice, they came pretty close to being defeated by the Dominion and then the Synths attacked Mars. I feel like constantly having your way of life threatened every few years would get old after a while.
     
  9. StarMan

    StarMan Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Well, the Dominion War was the largest military conflict in Federation history. So, the impact? Probably stuff all. Throwaway line at best.

    I'd be delighted to be proven wrong.
     
  10. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    We saw what impact the war had on Picard - we did all watch ST:Insurrection, now didn't we?

    The Breen didn't appear to hurt Earth much, in comparison with the Synth attack. A few pockmarks on San Francisco, as opposed to planetwide gasoline explosions and tens of thousands dead; the public is likely to forget the former when witnessing the latter, just like they forgot the first 9/11 air raids at the heart of the government in favor of the latter in about three decades.

    Did the Dominion War touch Earth? Supposedly not, exactly because the Breen raid was such a big deal. Picard's new adventures begin at Earth. But perhaps he'll eventually visit a location that actually experienced either the fighting or its side effects?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  11. Blooded

    Blooded Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Truthfully, I wouldn’t even bother mentioning it.

    For fans, we know it happened. We know that it probably contributed to the behaviour of Starfleet in this show. We know that it had an impact that likely set the quadrant back a few decades. And that’s great backstory for us to have in our heads as we discuss the show, or think about it.

    The priority, however, is keeping this show accessible. Which means that the non-fan is important to consider. Let’s not TELL them about some big war that happened, and hope they can understand a simplified version of something that was given YEARS of creative attention on DS9. Instead, let’s create a new disaster attempt, that we can all explore together, and that the narrative of the show can tell us all we need to know about it, etc. I feel this is the way the creative team have decided to go, and their reason for doing so.

    Also, something I’d not even considered until writing this post: how many of our cast even fully experienced the war? It ended almost 25 years ago, so even our middle aged characters would have likely been low ranking Starfleet officers, if they had even joined the ranks by then.

    Dahj likely wasn’t even born, especially if we take her actors age as a guide for Dahj’s (21, as of yesterday, I believe? 20 when filming).

    The Romulan characters could be a different story.

    Narek, visually, looks like he is similar in age to T’Pol, who was 60, so I’d put him in the 40-60 mark, at most. Could even be younger. Very likely that he also didn’t see action. Elnor strikes me as a young man, too.

    Basically, I don’t see the Dominion War having any acknowledged impact on the world that we see on screen. That will be for us fans to add in ourselves.
     
  12. picardjean-luc

    picardjean-luc Captain Captain

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    Yes, Dahj wasn't around when the Dominion War took place. But if my theory is correct, the DNA sample that would've created her might have existed already. It's just being put for safekeeping
    inside an incubator on a Borg cube. The DNA was extracted from Picard/Locutus when Picard was assimilated into the collective after the Battle of Wolf 359 (in 2367). My theory is that Dahj is created as an experiment merging the body of a synth/Soong android, which then injected with Locutus DNA in order to turn her into a super-soldier

    Agreed. There doesn't seem to be many current and former Starfleet officers who saw action during the Dominion War.

    Mussiker was likely still a cadet or even younger when the War broke out. Same with Rios. I think they're likely to be part of new generation of officers who entered Starfleet after the War when Federation was on a major recruitment drive to replenish its ranks. They served under Picard post-Nemesis and were mentored by him.

    The Vulcan/Romulan Starfleet officer played by Tamlyn Tomita might be a Dominion War veteran. She looks like in her late 40s or early 50s but then again Vulcans and Romulans aged slower than humans. I think it's the battle-hardened officers like herself as well as her superiors in the Starfleet HQ that were responsible to change the Federation's outlook to become more militaristic and isolationist by the time 'Picard' begins.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
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  13. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, there you have it. The Enterprise E, and by extension Picard didn't have much if any involvement with the Dominion War. Meanwhile, the evacuation of Romulus was something Picard was personally overseeing and invested in.
     
  14. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Captain Captain

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    But to be fair, we don't know if the Enterprise-E really wasn't involved in at least some of the battles.

    In the Novelverse the E played a big role in the liberation of Betazed.
     
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  15. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Seems like Musiker's in her 50s. She probably cut her teeth during the Dominion War. I'd say that's where she got her start. As an officer, not a cadet. Then it probably went from there. Her background is probably the reason why Picard wanted her to be his XO. She had experience in areas where he didn't have as much, so they complimented each other.

    I'd be surprised if Rios ever met Picard before PIC. But yeah, if he's around the same age as the actor, he would've been in his late-teens or early-20s during the Dominion War and probably a cadet. Unless they gave him a rapid field promotion because they needed as many soldiers as they could get as fast as they could.

    That type of experience might've been what made him want to quit. Or he liked the war a little too much and Starfleet didn't have much use for an officer like him after the war ended. Either way, I think they probably mutually decided he wasn't a good fit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
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  16. Crewman6

    Crewman6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The actress is 53. The war ended 20 years ago. She absolutely should have a backstory that involves the war, it would be a great bit of history for her. Who knows ,maybe she served under Picard during the war.

    Yes, I agree the show shouldn't delve too deeply into it, as it wouldn't be all that relevant. But a few references would be most appreciated.

    Yes, the show is trying to be "accessible" to new audiences, but there are (already) many references to things from the franchise's past in it. It's not like we can pretend there isn't a massive history to this franchise.

    Just telling even a new audience, "hey, there was a huge war twenty years ago" isn't a hard concept to get across. We don't need the blow by blow, but the occasional mention.
     
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  17. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^^...Or, for all we know, Rios actually is an out-and-out criminal who did a lot of thieving while in uniform, and finally got caught. Might be more fun that way.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  18. Q_The_Misanthrope

    Q_The_Misanthrope Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Came here to say this. The Dominion war was run by Admirals, generally speaking. Credit to Sisko as well of course. But Picard would have been following orders. And looking at the novels, while they definitely helped out I think they were purposely kept out of most major engagements for the sake of morale. Losing the flagship would have dealt a huge blow to morale fleet-wide.
    The evacuation of Romulus was Picards responsibility. And we all know Picard is a very introspective person. If he failed at what he was supposed to do and that failure resulted in a major loss of life, he's going to keep that buried where it may fester. Factor in the possibility of Starfleet mass producing Soong Type androids and not giving them the rights Data had would also very much rub him the wrong way.
     
  19. Phily B

    Phily B Commodore Commodore

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    Almost nothing. There are some Ent-E Dominion War books, but Insurrection indicates that they were doing diplomatic missions to rally support. I imagine they were involved, but with the Sovereign class as advanced as it was, I imagine it was mostly used as a lone ship rather than in a fleet.

    That said, I do think they need to be careful with the whole "this incident changed the federation" when we already went through that with Wolf 359. Wolf 359 was basically the Federation's 9/11, without it I don't think they'd have dealt with future threats as well including the Dominion. That was kinda what Q was doing.
     
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  20. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I wonder whether Wolf 359 even really made the news. Earth gets threatened by horrible enemies every other week; the Borg failed in their attack. Sure, they killed a lot of people in uniform, but those get killed en masse every other week, too.

    Were civilians killed in the attack? After Jouret (whoever heard of that place?), the Borg fought at Wolf 359, Jupiter and Mars at least, and probably also at Saturn which they were shown passing. But they would probably have fought Starfleet there. There's no evidence they did anything at Earth, despite supposedly reaching orbit several minutes before our heroes joined them. Neither this Borg attack nor the ST:FC one need have shocked the public much, then.

    Timo Saloniemi