What if the Romulan invasion of Vulcan was successful?

[ED-209]

The two powers are pretty much evenly matched, surely one of them invading a core world of the other would lead to all out war that would likely go on decades. The two powers would be extremely weakened at the end (assuming there was no outright victor). Would the Cardassians/Klingons take advantage of this situation? Then theres the Dominion (assuming the Wormhole is still discovered) - this would make victory for them much easier.

Thoughts?

 

[dupersuper]

We'd all be speaking Romulan today...?

 

[at Quark's]

It was a harebrained scheme to start with. First of all, how could they possibly take over an entire world with a contingent of only slightly over 2000 Romulan soldiers, and hold out? Not even them being 'entrenched' would save them.

But let's suppose they hold out for the moment. Now the Romulans got a planet smack middle in Federation territory, surrounded by Federation space and forces, and therefore no direct line of supply or reinforcements. The Federation would probably erect a massive blockade around the planet. Sure, the Romulan cloaking technology might help them there, but I think the treaty of Algeron would go out of the window, the Romulans having broken the peace conditions. And the agreement that the Federation never developed cloaking technology doesn't mean they never developed means to penetrate those cloaks, or wouldn't be capable of developing those in very short order now that the treaty isn't valid anymore.

In short, all the Romulans achieved is that they now have an indefensible outpost. And a pissed off Federation at their borders.

 

[Herbert]

It was a harebrained scheme to start with. First of all, how could they possibly take over an entire world with a contingent of only slightly over 2000 Romulan soldiers, and hold out? Not even them being 'entrenched' would save them.

The whole premise of that was just silly.

 

[Vger23]

Yeah, it was really stupid. I don't think you could successfully invade the Bahamas with only 2000 people, let alone Vulcan.

 

[Oddish]

They probably weren't elite troops either. Otherwise, I don't see the Romulans slaughtering them quite so casually.

 

[Timofnine]

The Vulcans were one of the founding members of the Federation and chose diplomacy rather than empire building as their preferred method of developing relations with other species - after making a successful and legal ‘first contact’ of course. As a side note, I am curious if Earth was the first (or last) species that the Vulcans made first contact with? Are there any canon or non canon references or records to Vulcans making this form of contact with other worlds? Were the Vulcans ‘alone out there’ before finding Earth via that infamous and often contorted (Through a Mirror, Darkly, First Contact, Metamorphosis) Zephram Cochrane saga? The Vulcans also seemed to follow the prime directive to the latter, making sure that Earth (and hopefully anyone else that their sensors had detected warp signatures from) had developed warp drive before showing us their spaceship. Had the Vulcans developed a prime directive before the forming of the Federation, was this seemingly Vulcan rule transferred in to the Federation charter’s on the forming of the Federation?

The Vulcans never expanded beyond their home world through colonisation from what we see depicted on screen.

Or did they….

The Vulcan species come across as being very introverted. The Romulans (going back to the original posters post, sorry to go off topic) as depicted in canon on the other hand seemed to be quite the extroverts; they left Vulcan and after colonising Romulus as their new home planet (damn Surak and his teachings!) continued to expand and create an empire of many worlds which spanned a good portion of the Beta Quadrant. We can assume that they did this without following the same laws, directives and logic as their Vulcan ancestors. First of all, they must have colonised and conquered Remus, I’m guessing that it was an uninhabited planet at the time? The Remans are a bit like what the Aenars are to the Andorians from what I can gather and not a subjugated slave species? Obviously the Romulans wanted Remus under their influence as it is rich in natural resources in a very similar way as to how the Klingons needed Praxis, though Praxis was only a moon… Remus was a twin planet so as well as being in a close proximity and controlling the tides it was also capable of supporting a hefty population (I’m assuming Remus was an M class planet like Romulus was?).

So after building this great ‘Romulan empire’, why would they want to invade little Vulcan? Are the Romulans not happy with what they have achieved and what they have built and become?, separate from the conflicts and devastation of the past?

I think that I remember this storyline… Unification.

Maybe the Romulans wanted to invade Vulcan because they had historical ties with the planet? They are literally a long lost and disconnected family.

The Romulans had achieved an empire, the Vulcans had achieved a collaborative Federation in partnership with other species, but perhaps the Federation was not to the Romulans liking as they didn’t like how their ancestral home was slowly beginning to be influenced by external, yet benign, forces… even militarised to some extent, so rather than letting their ancient home land continue to be absorbed in to what they see as being out of their influence (they maybe always wanted to return and reclaim it), they decide to send a secret invasion. Again, if I remember correctly, this invasion fleet was disguised as civilian transports? I think that there were several pew pew’s and a touch of mild peril but no epic space battles.

I think that the Romulans should have approached this in a different way.

Rather than seeing Vulcan as a lost ancestral home, something to take back one day when they have developed enough power… perhaps they should think of Vulcan as being almost like a planetary ‘embassy’ or mutual ground for both the Federation and Romulans. A location where there is a shared history and a lot at stake… a common ground from which to develop mutual relations.

Why would anyone destructively invade their ancestral homeland? Potentially killing their distant cousins and friends?

So, back to the original posters question. If the Romulans would have invaded Vulcan, it would have broken the treaty of Algeron and therefore be considered as an act of war against the Federation.

Ukraine is not a member of NATO (the Federation?). Imagine if Vulcan was Ukraine, and the Romulans were Russia.

That is a space battle that no one wants to see.

 

[STEPhon IT]

The two powers are pretty much evenly matched, surely one of them invading a core world of the other would lead to all out war that would likely go on decades. The two powers would be extremely weakened at the end (assuming there was no outright victor). Would the Cardassians/Klingons take advantage of this situation? Then theres the Dominion (assuming the Wormhole is still discovered) - this would make victory for them much easier.

Thoughts?

Your guess is as good as mine.

 

[Oddish]

Rather than seeing Vulcan as a lost ancestral home, something to take back one day when they have developed enough power… perhaps they should think of Vulcan as being almost like a planetary ‘embassy’ or mutual ground for both the Federation and Romulans. A location where there is a shared history and a lot at stake… a common ground from which to develop mutual relations.

I think that that is what Spock hoped to bring into being. As he said:

"The union of Vulcan and the Romulan people will not be achieved by politics or by diplomacy, but it will be achieved. The answer has been here before us all along. An inexorable evolution toward a Vulcan philosophy has already begun. Like the first Vulcans, these people are struggling to a new enlightenment. It may take decades, even centuries for them to reach it, but they will reach it."

 

[Timofnine]

I think that that is what Spock hoped to bring into being. As he said:

"The union of Vulcan and the Romulan people will not be achieved by politics or by diplomacy, but it will be achieved. The answer has been here before us all along. An inexorable evolution toward a Vulcan philosophy has already begun. Like the first Vulcans, these people are struggling to a new enlightenment. It may take decades, even centuries for them to reach it, but they will reach it."

Why not through politics and diplomacy, don’t they go hand in hand with philosophy? Perhaps Vulcan just needs to have some type of neutral status, or maybe instead of becoming neutral it could become a shared and collaborative planet on an ideological level, to showcase to both the Vulcan’s and Romulans (sceptics and advocates alike) that such a reunification could actually one day work? Kind of like ‘dipping toes in to the water’ as they say. I’m not sure about the planet Vulcan’s population as compared to the Romulan’s, especially after the supernova, nor the demographics or the complexities of internal alien politics, but as long as at least some of the Vulcan’s want the reunification (I’m assuming that at least some do, as shown in the Enterprise series?) it could be arranged by proportional representation of some sorts, reunification doesn’t even need to take place solely on Vulcan, because the species has expanded far beyond their home planet as part of the Federation? It all depends on what both the planet’s population’s want I guess! Some Romulan’s might not even be interested in reunification, same for the Vulcan’s. It could just be a politically motivated thing? Reunification doesn’t even need to involve movement of populations or the ‘bottom of the barrel’ physical invasions. Reunification can also be ideological and cultural; cultural exchange and diplomacy would be far better than any disruptor beam. Reunification should not be about inter planetary land grabs though… especially seeing as Vulcan is a member of the Federation, and a founding one at that.

 

[Markonian]

The Vulcans were one of the founding members of the Federation and chose diplomacy rather than empire building as their preferred method of developing relations with other species - after making a successful and legal ‘first contact’ of course. As a side note, I am curious if Earth was the first (or last) species that the Vulcans made first contact with? Are there any canon or non canon references or records to Vulcans making this form of contact with other worlds? Were the Vulcans ‘alone out there’ before finding Earth via that infamous and often contorted (Through a Mirror, Darkly, First Contact, Metamorphosis) Zephram Cochrane saga? The Vulcans also seemed to follow the prime directive to the latter, making sure that Earth (and hopefully anyone else that their sensors had detected warp signatures from) had developed warp drive before showing us their spaceship. Had the Vulcans developed a prime directive before the forming of the Federation, was this seemingly Vulcan rule transferred in to the Federation charter’s on the forming of the Federation?

The Vulcans never expanded beyond their home world through colonisation from what we see depicted on screen.

The presentation in ENT shows the Vulcans having a hegemonial power over the area. They don't outright conquer other worlds, except for Weytahn, but keep them under their influence, e.g. Coridan III and Mazar. They had a large fleet until the Syrranite reformation, that's power projection. Romulans and Vulcans had canonically fought a war sometime after the Sundering.

Evidenced by T'Pol, there was a rule/were rules against interfering with other species, e.g. when the subcommander cautioned Archer against getting involved in situations in 2151 and 2152. With the Akaali, T'Pol preferred probes and orbital observation to a landing party.

 

[Timofnine]

Would the Mintakan’s and other ‘offshoot’ Vulcan races also be included in a reunification? The Romulan's don’t have a prime directive even though the Vulcan’s do… I think that it would probably be best to leave them to it until they are ready to break the warp barrier, they are centuries behind both the Romulan’s and Vulcan’s. The most important question though is would reunifying these species also lead to the Romulan’s joining the Federation by default? I think so. It wouldn’t be fair if they didn’t have to apply like everybody else though.

 

[at Quark's]

^ I don't think the Mintakans were meant to be an actual offshoot of the Vulcan race, any more than all those aliens (nearly) indistinguishable from humans were all meant to be actual offshoots from earth humans.

 

[Timofnine]

^ I don't think the Mintakans were meant to be an actual offshoot of the Vulcan race, any more than all those aliens (nearly) indistinguishable from humans were all meant to be actual offshoots from earth humans.

Perhaps they are a race that left Vulcan at the same time as the Romulan’s because they disagreed with the politics of the time? They might have flown off in their colony spaceship and landed on Mintaka(sp?) for an easier life away from both the Vulcan’s and the Romulan’s. I seem to remember them being described as ‘proto Vulcan’s’. Or alternatively, maybe the Vulcan’s themselves actually originated from Mintaka, and they forced the Vulcan’s off their planet so that they could have an easier life away from technology, in a similar way as to how the Romulan’s left Vulcan? Maybe the Vulcan’s chose to leave the Mintakans behind by departing to Vulcan itself? I don’t know?

Whatever the situation was though, I think that the Mintakans probably want to be left alone, at least for now.

 

[at Quark's]

Here are 2 lines of the episode:

TROI: According to Doctor Barron's preliminary reports, the Mintakans are proto-Vulcan humanoids at the Bronze Age level. Quite peaceful and highly rational.
PICARD: Which is not surprising, considering how closely their evolution parallels Vulcan.

Given that Picard uses the word evolution here rather than development, it would seem he doesn't entertain the hypothesis of them actually being the same race. Though of course he could be speaking metaphorically.

But I agree with you that whatever their origin, at their current situation they'd best be left alone. I'd also say the PD would still apply to them regardless of their origins, even if it had been inadvertently broken before by Picard & Crew.

 

[dupersuper]

^ I don't think the Mintakans were meant to be an actual offshoot of the Vulcan race, any more than all those aliens (nearly) indistinguishable from humans were all meant to be actual offshoots from earth humans.

Probably not, but like with the eventual Preserver explanation for many of the humans and Progenitor explanation for many of the wider humanoid species, there is that Return to Tomorrow race sitting there as an obvious explanation that connects them.

 

[Timofnine]

Maybe The Romulan’s and Vulcan’s should look back on ancient Earth history and see how to do a reunification properly?

https://mol.im/a/1079068

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Unification would've had a third part, which would see Picard negotiate for the release of Vulcan as the E-D and a couple of other ships glower at a trio of Romulan Warbirds. By the end of the episode Vulcan is freed and the following week it is never spoken of.

 

[Arpy]

The peace contingent gets to Vulcan and is officially invited to stay be a regional administrator amenable to Romulus. The thousands of troops are there for extra security not to take the planet. There's an indefinite stalemate as political and legal battles are waged. During which the Romulan propaganda machine goes into overdrive pushing for Unification and thereby and end to Vulcan's greatest embarrassment. Talk of leaving the Federation and dissolving the Star-Empire, which even some Romulans genuinely consider. Many more Vulcan and Romulans visit each other's worlds.

The Klingons are against all of it for fear of greater Federation/Romulan unity. There's a Klingon attack of Romulan civilians (maybe Tal Shiar orchestrated) that forces the Federation to condemn their allies, and the Klingons cool to the Federation. Maybe the Romulans let the Breen cross their territory to attack Klingon space, and the Klingons strike back at Romulus. When the Federation doesn't fight the Romulans with them, they pull out of the Khitomer Accords entirely, and now it's a different Galaxy.

When the Cardassians pull out of Bajor the Federation is too preoccupied to help, and the Wormhole is never discovered. Sensing weakness in their old enemies, the Tzenkethi take the extraordinary step of "assisting" Bajor rebuild, effectively conquering it and finding themselves right next door to Cardassia itself.

The Dominion is watching.

 

[Timofnine]

When the Cardassians pull out of Bajor the Federation is too preoccupied to help, and the Wormhole is never discovered. Sensing weakness in their old enemies, the Tzenkethi take the extraordinary step of "assisting" Bajor rebuild, effectively conquering it and finding themselves right next door to Cardassia itself.

The Dominion is watching.

Why does no one ever envision that Bajor can develop and flourish on it’s own without external interference? It is a shame that the Vulcan’s were not around to make first contact with the Bajoran’s after they made their first successful warp flight using the solar sail ship. Maybe the Vulcan’s did see them and detect their warp signature but chose to ignore it? Or perhaps the Bajoran’s beat them to it and had no one to greet them after achieving this milestone because they got there first? The Vulcan’s might have been too busy dealing with the Romulan uprising at the time, with all of their space resources focused on relocating those who did not follow Surak and his teachings to Romulus?

The Tzenkethi might have just kept themselves to themselves as they are not exactly a major player in galactic affairs? I know that they had a brief war with the Federation but I think it was a bit lob sided with the Federation having the upper hand. If the Tzenkethi *did* help Bajor, why would it have to lead to a defacto conquering? Can’t two or more species cooperate and build things together without any untoward agenda? Maybe they made a coalition together and the Bajoran’s helped to spread spirituality to the Tzenkethi, with both species eventually joining the Federation?

As for the undiscovered Bajoran wormhole, perhaps the Dominion discover it first and send Changelings from the Gamma Quadrant through to the Alpha and Beta Quadrants on undercover infiltration missions?

I think that the Alpha Quadrant species would have ended up discovering the wormhole eventually because eventually they would have picked up it’s neutrino emissions as/if it was being used frequently by anyone else?