What If..Roddenberry had Full Creative Control

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Wally, Jul 23, 2022.

  1. Iamnotspock

    Iamnotspock Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Location:
    Bristol, England
    Indeed, but I can't imagine GR wouldn't have objected if he were that opposed to it.
     
  2. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Location:
    Parsippany, New Jersey, USA
    Who said he was opposed to it? I'm just saying that the idea didn't originate with Roddenberry.
     
  3. Iamnotspock

    Iamnotspock Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Location:
    Bristol, England
    I see, sorry; I specifically said under Roddenberry in my post, as opposed to by for that reason. It didn't seem relevant that it wasn't his idea directly as the important part was that he okayed it, so by bringing up that it wasn't strictly his idea, I thought you were implying he might not have been totally in favour of it.
     
  4. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Location:
    Parsippany, New Jersey, USA
    No. I was pointing out that it's very possible GR had nothing to do with it. I'm not big on automatically giving Roddenberry credit for every single thing that happened on Star Trek. Yes, he created the show, but he is far from the only person who deserves credit for it.
     
  5. Iamnotspock

    Iamnotspock Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Location:
    Bristol, England
    Agreed. I'd also say it's very likely he had nothing to do with the idea but - and perhaps I'm thinking too much of TNG-era GR - I presume he had power of veto over anything he strenuously objected to, therefore the point was that it got through on his watch. I'm aware he didn't write "Space Seed" and wasn't giving him too much credit but, in response to...

    So, not only was it Braga and Moore who came up with the idea of humanity being guided by the Vulcans - the very kind of "aliens were responsible for humanity's great achievements" he reportedly disliked - but GR was at least aware of and presumably approved of the idea of a devastating war being the impetus for humanity's growth and change.
     
  6. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Location:
    Parsippany, New Jersey, USA
    My understanding is that Roddenberry was not that active on TNG beyond the first two seasons, and even then his health was not in the best of shape. So a lot of the things attributed to him were actually done by his hanger-ons/sycophants like Leonard Maizlish and Richard Arnold (in the case of the novels and comics), often to the detriment of the material. And if it was anything from S3 of TNG and beyond, that's much more likely Rick Berman and Michael Piller than Roddenberry.

    Off the top of my head, I know that Roddenberry vetoed the kid recreating his dead mother on the holodeck in "The Bonding" (early 3rd season), and Picard lying to the holo-Moriarty at the end of "Elementary, Dear Data" (2nd season). I believe he also squelched the notion of it being a cabal of Starfleet officers behind the machinations of "Conspiracy" (1st season), opting for space parasites instead. And it seems like he was the main reason that David Gerrold's "Blood and Fire" (featuring both a gay couple and an AIDS allegory) never saw the light of day.

    Really, the main consistency I see in the TNG era is Roddenberry (or his people) shying away from more provocative/dramatic material in favor of conservative "Our heroes are always in the right" types of stories instead.

    On TOS, I don't know how active he was on the show beyond the first 13 episodes he produced. I've heard that he was the person who adjusted Khan's name to sound like his old friend Noonien Singh, but that's not really a huge story contribution. I honestly don't think anyone on the show thought, "Oooh, we're mapping out the history of our future utopia!" when they were writing "Space Seed." I'd guess it was more likely something like, "Hey, it's the future, let's say they was a future war between then and now!"
    Well, again, that feature film was produced nearly five years after Roddenberry died. So I don't think there was anything for him to "approve" of where First Contact was concerned. Really, no one on TNG was paying too much attention to the future history established on Star Trek until Michael and Denise Okuda decided to put together the official chronology as a resource for the show. And that was a just a case where they noted all the random historical references that had built up over 20+ years of the shows and movies, putting them in a logical order, and offering up possible explanations for the various contradictions that arose. It was them recognizing that they'd built up enough mythology that they had to keep track of it more closely so they could keep things consistent going forward.
     
    Lord Garth and Trekker09 like this.
  7. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Location:
    The Wormhole
    Indeed, by the third season Roddenberry was mostly just a figurehead and his only real involvement on TNG just consisted of visiting the set and chatting with the actors.
     
    JonnyQuest037 likes this.
  8. Elder Knight

    Elder Knight Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Location:
    SE USA
    Did he really own all those scripts, clips and props he sold?
     
  9. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Location:
    Aug 10, 2399
    Sounds like a man of his time... and all that goes with it.
     
  10. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Location:
    Aug 10, 2399
    I could see this with possibly TNG after he died, the first half of DS9, VOY, and ENT.

    The second half of DS9? I'm less than convinced. This is also the same guy who called his lawyer two days before he died to demand the more militaristic parts of TUC be cut out.
     
    Richard S. Ta likes this.
  11. Richard S. Ta

    Richard S. Ta Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2021
    Location:
    Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam
    For the frames he sold, I think they were being thrown away anyway. For the props I don't know, but I've heard they sold more than were made for the show.

    But the clincher is the IDIC, which he forcibly jammed into an episode as a promotion (Is There In Truth No Beauty). They'd just started selling that pendant and so brought it into the show.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2022
  12. plynch

    plynch Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Location:
    Outer Graceland
    Is There In Truth No Beauty
     
  13. Richard S. Ta

    Richard S. Ta Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2021
    Location:
    Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam
    Quite right, thank you. Edited! :angel:
     
  14. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2020
    It’s a mixed bag.

    I don’t think Roddenberry would like the war aspect. But I think he would like the idea of the three major powers in TOS coming together to face down a major threat.

    In that sense he would also be okay showing the Romulan War provided that it showed how the founders of the Federation all got on the same page to face down the common threat of the day. As an audience, we might want to see a dark, gritty story. But Roddenberry would be looking for something else from it.

    The only place I would imagine Roddenberry would tolerate the militarism in general is ENT, since its supposed to be primitive compared to TOS, TNG, VOY, DS9.