What if Picard Died and Riker Became Captain?

[Red Ranger]

My Peeps,

Hey, I'm sure this question has been asked many times, but I like to revisit such "what if" topics -- in fact, I just mentioned it in another thread earlier today.

What do you all think would've happened -- in-universe and out-of-universe -- if TPTB decided not to give Patrick Stewart the pay package he wanted and decided to make Jonathan Frakes the new lead?

In-universe, it's most likely Shelby would've become the new first officer, since Riker promoted her to the post in "Best of Both Worlds, Pt. 2." I would hope such a big change would've prompted the writing staff to examine Data's reaction to that. Maybe that would cause some friction between Data and Riker, with Data challenging Riker the way he later challenged Picard on why he wasn't offered a command in the blockade fleet in "Redemption, Pt. 2."

They probably would've kept Shelby till the 7th season. However, I would've liked to see her serve a few seasons, then make her captain of Voyager. Then Data would finally have a chance to be XO, around season 5 or 6, and the same issues they played out on the Sutherland -- some human crew members not willing to follow an android as second-in-command -- would play out on the Enterprise.

Out-of-universe, in our world, though, I wonder how popular TNG would remain. There are lots of Picard fans, but it would've been interesting to see how Frakes would've handled certain eps as captain, like "The Inner Light." My guess is they would've seasoned Riker even more and made him a bit more thoughtful, but also taken into account his more brash manner. Would Frakes have been as good in "Chain of Command" as Stewart was in dealing with Gul Madred? If Shelby were still first officer, would she have bucked Jellico the same way?

Certainly, even as he got older, accepting Riker as the action captain over Picard in the movies would've been more believable.

Red Ranger

 

[ladyheather69]

Interesting.

In-universe, i don't think that if Data was given the XOs spot that he would have encountered any problems on board the Enterprise. The people that served on that vessel knew him and respected him. I don't see any possible promotion changing that view point.

Out-of-universe, not really sure. I don't know how popular TNG would have stayed. I am sure it might have run as long, but I think Picard had just enough "action" to keep action fans happy with him.

I just think the whole idea of Riker not becoming Captain sooner was a bit much. I think he should have been made a Captain before the series ended. JMO

 

[davejames]

Personally I always loved it everytime Riker would take command. Frakes had so much damn charisma, looked cool striding around the bridge, and was great at barking orders to people.

I think the show would have survived pretty well, and possibly given the show a slightly "looser" and more relaxed tone. It's a shame they didn't consider a spinoff for him.

 

[nx1701g]

Red Ranger said:
There are lots of Picard fans, but it would've been interesting to see how Frakes would've handled certain eps as captain, like "The Inner Light." My guess is they would've seasoned Riker even more and made him a bit more thoughtful, but also taken into account his more brash manner. Would Frakes have been as good in "Chain of Command" as Stewart was in dealing with Gul Madred?

Who's to say those storylines would have even happened?

I think we would have seen something along the lines of Parallels or Future Imperfect.

 

[K-Star]

I dunno why Shelby became first officer instead of Data, when Data is clearly next in line after Riker....

Then again, I don't think I ever watched BOBW part 1.

 

[nx1701g]

^ Riker made Shelby XO in BOBW because he didn't want to disrupt the departments that were in place because he felt he needed them where Picard had trusted them.

 

[K-Star]

Yeah but up until that point had anyone even heard of Shelby? It's like they picked out some random person and said "Hey, you get to be first officer so we don't mess up the departments. Screw the chain of command!"

Perhaps I should watch the episode...

 

[Good Will Riker]

Had Patrick Stewart left after contract disputes/his dissatisfaction with working on the show, TNG itself would have remained extremely popular after the hype from "The Best of Both Worlds" and the show would have been considered "daring" for killing-off main characters, unlike TOS, such as Security Chief Tasha Yar -- and of course their very own captain, Jean-Luc Picard.

Critics and columnists would be saying that Picard was "an old bore," and Captain Riker was a return to form to the glory days of James T. Kirk, and most fans would probably reason that "It was probably time for Picard to have retired, anyway" had Picard died and Riker remained captain of the Enteprise-D.

Riker - captain
Shelby - first officer
Data - ops/second officer
Geordi - chief engineer
Worf - chief of security
Beverly - chief medical officer
Troi - ship's counselor

The show probably would have formed a Riker/Shelby, Data/Geordi, Beverly/Troi dynamic, with Worf remaining as the loner who explores his Klingon heritage while raising his son with the occassional dialogue with Riker. And praised by the writers for having a ratio of 4 men and 3 women in the cast. Elizabeth Dennehy herself as "Commander Shelby" would have gotten the kind of praise that Kate Mulgrew received as Captain Kathryn Janeway when VOY first aired.

However, I am glad that Patrick Stewart stuck around and helped give TNG a legitimate air of "theatre" to a popular science-fiction show. Stewart became the symbol of TNG and the face of Modern Trek throughout the 90's, and his popularity helped launch another franchise: The X-Men feature films. Stewart himself, more than any other Hollywood celebrity in the past 16 years, has helped bring appreciation and accessibility of Shakespeare, Dickens, and classical theatre to your everyday, average joe people. That is quite commendable.

Plus, the 7 of them together worked great! Break them apart, and you already saw what happened in season 2 with the exclusion of Gates McFadden and the introduction of Diana Muldaur. It just didn't work as effectively. Personally, I am glad that history unfolded the way it did.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Big assumption that Dennehy (Shelby) would've become a cast member, isn't it? Basically, no one needed to be added if Data was made XO, and if he wasn't...perhaps an entirely new character would be added. Maybe when season 5 rolled around, Ensign Ro would've been a regular...if Michelle Forbes would've signed on for that.

 

[davejames]

Even if Shelby had stuck around, she probably would have been softened beyond recognition. There's no way Roddenberry would allow her to continue to be such a huge source of conflict on the show; he wanted the crew to be one big, happy family remember.

And frankly I would have found her to be pretty annoying on a regular basis anyway. She was great as a guest star, but that's it.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

K-Star said:
I dunno why Shelby became first officer instead of Data, when Data is clearly next in line after Riker....

Then again, I don't think I ever watched BOBW part 1.

His reason, other than not wanting to disrupt the bridge crew structure, was that Shelby was the resident Borg expert and thus the logical choice to advise him as XO.

 

[Locutus of Board]

The Enterprise-E would be a pile of interstellar scrap in no time.

 

[Red Ranger]

nx1701g said:

Red Ranger said:
There are lots of Picard fans, but it would've been interesting to see how Frakes would've handled certain eps as captain, like "The Inner Light." My guess is they would've seasoned Riker even more and made him a bit more thoughtful, but also taken into account his more brash manner. Would Frakes have been as good in "Chain of Command" as Stewart was in dealing with Gul Madred?

Who's to say those storylines would have even happened?

And who's to say they wouldn't have? Despite the cast changes, the same writers would be pitching the same stories to TPTB, and most likely would have been accepted. "Future Imperfect" would have happpened, only with Shelby thinking it was 16 years in the future and Riker being the Admiral instead! Maybe "Chain of Command" might not have occured, as it was Patrick Stewart's interest in Amnesty International that helped get that ep made. And maybe a few different eps would've aired that played more to Jonathan Frakes' strengths. -- RR

 

[Broccoli]

davejames said:
Even if Shelby had stuck around, she probably would have been softened beyond recognition. There's no way Roddenberry would allow her to continue to be such a huge source of conflict on the show; he wanted the crew to be one big, happy family remember.

And frankly I would have found her to be pretty annoying on a regular basis anyway. She was great as a guest star, but that's it.

Well, for one, Roddenberry wasn't calling the shots anymore for TNG at that point.

But, I agree that they would have soften her. If Shebly was kept around, Riker's relationship with her probably would have mirrored Sisko's relationship with Kira in DS9's first season. They got off to a real rocky start, but they soon found a good balance and became a strong team.

 

[Jack Bauer]

MeanJoePhaser said:
Big assumption that Dennehy (Shelby) would've become a cast member, isn't it?

I'm not sure. That was the big rumor atthe time. I think TV Guide uoted Berman or Piller saying Shelby would be the first officer if Patrick Stewart didn't come back.

 

[Good Will Riker]

^^^
Shelby was portrayed by a good actress, so there would not have been many worries had Patrick Stewart decided not to continue on with the show.

After all, actress Elizabeth Dennehy is Brian Dennehy's daughter. There is definitely acting talent in the Dennehy genes.

 

[WillsBabe]

We had a small glimpse of what TNG might have been like without Picard and with Riker in the centre seat in Parallels. I wonder if "our" Riker would have the same reaction to losing Picard as the au Riker did, and I wonder if the writers would have written something like that into the show? Also, it would have been good to see the Pegasus happen if Riker had been the captain rather than the first officer.

 

[Vanyel]

Also since the Borg Queen survived, and Picard was intended to be her partner, according to First Contact we could have seen Picard back in other Borg episodes.

On the other hand, I don't Rikers relationship with Q, would have been as dynamic as Picards.

Edited to correc the movie name.

 

[TrueQ]

I think that Picard's relationship with Q was great because they were so different: P-versatile and serious; Q-amoral and intriguing. Riker wouldn't have made such nice speeches and would've dismissed Q quickly.
As far as The Borg are concerned, Picard has a strong memory regarding them, something Riker didn't. That's why Riker would've been a good captain, but then again TNG would've had something missing: Picard.

 

[Broccoli]

You know, I think we are missing the most important issue here. How would this effect the masterpiece that is TATV?