What if Earth doesn't rejoin the Federation?

[Sci]

I mean, you would think that if anything, the nation that helped found the United Nations and forge the coalition that defeated Nazi Germany would understand the value of international unity, but that still didn't stop the United Kingdom from seceding from the European Union.

I hesitate to inject facts into that dig at the UK, but you are aware that
1-the UK wasnt even involved in the creation of the EU (or specifically, its predecessor the EC)

It's a good thing I didn't claim they were.

but joined a few decades after it was founded therefore cannot be accused of somehow kneecapping an organisation of its own making.

It's a good thing I didn't accuse them of kneecapping an organization of their own making.

What I did say was that they ought to know the value of international unity.

2-The EU was a by product of, not a factor in, post war international unity.

I think asking whether the European Union is a product of post-WW2 international unity or a factor in post-WW2 international unity is a bit like asking which side of the scissors does the cutting.

3-`Dark moments`? Voting to leave an international organisation and therefore have the laws that affect you made by the people you elect

I do agree that the European Union has a democratic deficit, but the United Kingdom had elected representation in the European Parliament same as any other E.U. Member State. The answer there is to stay in the E.U. and reform it to be more democratic, not to run away. The U.S. had a democratic deficit when our Senate was unelected, but the answer there was not for states to secede.

In addition, the U.K. frankly had more autonomy within the E.U. than other E.U. Member States by virtue of its retention of the pound-sterling rather than using the euro. The U.K. got to keep its own monetary policy, which is more than most of the E.U. Member States got. The U.K. got a sweetheart deal most E.U. Member States didn't get and that still wasn't good enough for them.

But then, leaving the E.U. was never about national autonomy. It was about anti-immigrant hatred. Which is why hate crimes soared after the Brexit vote went through.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

It's a good thing I didn't claim they were.



It's a good thing I didn't accuse them of kneecapping an organization of their own making.

What I did say was that they ought to know the value of international unity.



I think asking whether the European Union is a product of post-WW2 international unity or a factor in post-WW2 international unity is a bit like asking which side of the scissors does the cutting.



I do agree that the European Union has a democratic deficit, but the United Kingdom had elected representation in the European Parliament same as any other E.U. Member State. The answer there is to stay in the E.U. and reform it to be more democratic, not to run away. The U.S. had a democratic deficit when our Senate was unelected, but the answer there was not for states to secede.

In addition, the U.K. frankly had more autonomy within the E.U. than other E.U. Member States by virtue of its retention of the pound-sterling rather than using the euro. The U.K. got to keep its own monetary policy, which is more than most of the E.U. Member States got. The U.K. got a sweetheart deal most E.U. Member States didn't get and that still wasn't good enough for them.

But then, leaving the E.U. was never about national autonomy. It was about anti-immigrant hatred. Which is why hate crimes soared after the Brexit vote went through.

Repeating my post from the previous page:

Can we please shelve the Brexit discussion and get back to talking about the fictional future Earth from Discovery?

I'm trying to avoid closing this down since the OP is not responsible for the sidetrack into Brexit, but the frequent notifications on this are starting to get irritating.

To the person doing the notifications, you need to grow a thicker skin, because as far as internet debate goes this has been mild and respectful. If you're going to engage on controversial real world political issues, you need to be able to handle some pushback on it.

To everyone else, I get that the subject matter calls for real world comparisons, but for now, can we please try and remain focused on the the fictional Earth's Earthxit? Gaiago? Terran Takeoff?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Earth will probably petition to reenter if it’s proven to them it’s once again stable. Maybe not immediately but eventually. Especially if a common threat emerges.

But both seem to be perfectly fine without the other.

Remember Earth did not leave until after the Burn, when the Federation was not a stable entity with functional infrastructure.

Once that infrastructure is back, Earth will realize it’s just more efficient not to have to be completely self sufficient in all commodities, and safer when you have allies to protect you against big threats.

 

[Sci]

Earth will probably petition to reenter if it’s proven to them it’s once again stable. Maybe not immediately but eventually. Especially if a common threat emerges.

But both seem to be perfectly fine without the other.

Remember Earth did not leave until after the Burn, when the Federation was not a stable entity with functional infrastructure.

Once that infrastructure is back, Earth will realize it’s just more efficient not to have to be completely self sufficient in all commodities, and safer when you have allies to protect you against big threats.

I agree, but I don't think that's the whole story. I think the other part of the story is that U.E. has internalized a lot of nativism and isolationism, and its political culture is going to need to shed that kind of xenophobia again before they can rejoin the Federation.

 

[fireproof78]

Earth will probably petition to reenter if it’s proven to them it’s once again stable. Maybe not immediately but eventually. Especially if a common threat emerges.

But both seem to be perfectly fine without the other.

Remember Earth did not leave until after the Burn, when the Federation was not a stable entity with functional infrastructure.

Once that infrastructure is back, Earth will realize it’s just more efficient not to have to be completely self sufficient in all commodities, and safer when you have allies to protect you against big threats.

Probably so and there will be little commentary on it, "Captain's log, supplemental. We have delivered the Ambassador from Earth in anticipation of welcoming them back in to the Federation. Leaders are both sides are eager to resume relations and it promises to be fruitful. The Discovery is now enroute to a recent distress call..."