What if Cumberbatch is not the "Villain"?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Vektor, Dec 11, 2012.

  1. Vektor

    Vektor Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Mar 30, 2001
    Spokane, WA, USA
    I just posted a comment in a different thread that got me thinking about this and I wanted to follow up on it in more detail.

    What if Cumberbatch's John Harrison is not the actual villain in this movie? What if he's just an operative for the real villain who somehow betrayed or abandoned him and now Harrison has returned to "have his vengeance" with Starfleet and the planet Earth caught in the crossfire? What if the real villain is actually being played by Peter Weller, the one major cast member who has yet to be identified and has remained so far under the radar he's almost been forgotten?

    As tempted as I am to dismiss the Section 31 speculations, knowing how well steeped Orci and some of the others are in Trek esoterica does make me wonder. I can imagine a scenario in which John Harrison is a Section 31 agent, perhaps genetically augmented, and Peter Weller is the head of Section 31, operating from a secretly built, technologically advanced starship, maybe the one with the darker interior we've seen in the previews, and maybe even the one we see crashing into San Francisco bay.

    We know the opening of the film (SPOILERS AHEAD) involves the Enterprise crew intervening to save a primitive alien culture from destruction by a catastrophic volcanic eruption, but a dilemma arises when Kirk has to choose between letting Spock die and violating the Prime Directive by revealing the Enterprise to the natives. Of course we can guess which option Kirk chooses and, by some accounts, gets in a degree of trouble for it with Pike and others at Starfleet. This sounds to me like the perfect setup for a confrontation with an organization like Section 31 whose very existence is antithetical to the Prime Directive.

    John Harrison could be, as 137th Gebirg commented on my original post, a "Jason Bourne-style character gone completely off the reservation." Or perhaps someone more like Raoul Silva in the latest James Bond flick, Skyfall, a deadly former agent hell-bent on revenge against the head of MI6 who sold him out and left him for dead. I'm guessing he's somewhere in-between, disillusioned both with the shadowy organization he works for and the people who have no clue or appreciation of the sacrifices he has made to protect them from a dangerous galaxy. Go back and listen to his voiceover in the teaser trailer and consider it in that context.

    It's even possible that Harrison redeems himself before the end. Perhaps he realizes the damage he has done and seeks to atone for it. Maybe this has something to do with the scene, presumably in the ship's brig, with hands on two sides of the glass that supposedly belong to Spock and Harrison. Or maybe Harrison actually sacrifices himself in order to defeat Weller's character and this is a moment of understanding between former enemies. Lots of possibilities.

    Here's one more: What if Weller not only plays the real villain, but that villain is actually someone we are all well acquainted with? What if the writers' comments about the "villain" being a canon character from TOS were accurate after all? What if Section 31 was actually founded by a very familiar character, one who was a product of genetic engineering and selective breeding but was not Khan, one who's very purpose in life was to intervene in human events for the supposed betterment of mankind?

    What if the real villain of Star Trek Into Darkness is Gary Seven?
  2. Gojira

    Gojira Commodore Commodore

    Oct 15, 2008
    Stompin' on Tokyo
    I have suspected that Weller's character could be the true villain and that Cumberbatch's character is just a henchman.
  3. SalvorHardin

    SalvorHardin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Mar 6, 2008
    Star's End
    I must admit I enjoy your theory.
    How about this. What if GATT2000 is actually Beta 5 reimagined?
  4. urbandk

    urbandk Commodore Commodore

    Aug 20, 2008
    DFW, Texas
    I like where this speculation is going. Fun.
  5. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Mar 8, 2001
    I don't think that Gary 7 would be a good idea.

    Beyond that, there seem to be indications that Weller is Admiral Marcus.
  6. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Commodore Commodore

    Sep 2, 2008
    Admiral Marcus could have villainous motivations.
  7. Vektor

    Vektor Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Mar 30, 2001
    Spokane, WA, USA
    Yeah, I've picked up on that in a couple of places since I drafted this post, though I have yet to see a reference for it. It wouldn't really change my theory much. Admiral Marcus could be the head of Section 31, or Section 31 might not figure into it at all, just some branch of Starfleet with nefarious motives.

    Then again, if Gary Seven had been alive and manipulating events on Earth and throughout the Federation for 250 years, he certainly wouldn't have gone by the name Gary Seven that whole time. Maybe Seven is Admiral Marcus and Carol Marcus is his daughter. Total speculation, sure, but so is everything else.

    Personally, I think Gary Seven as the founder and head of Section 31 makes perfect sense. Wouldn't be the first time Hollywood has taken a protagonist and turned them into an antagonist as time and tragedy or other forces have worn them down.

    Also, I can't get over how much Peter Weller looks like Robert Lansing.
  8. YellowSubmarine

    YellowSubmarine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Aug 17, 2010
    The thing that I liked about Gary Seven is that he was part of the 20th century, and I like stories set in our past. Into Darkness is not set in our past, so I don't see why I'd enjoy Gary Seven more than I'd enjoy John Harrison or Mary Williams. If the villain is Gary Seven I won't get any additional enjoyment because of it, and it will be barely more than just a name. OK, I'll get some references in my head and some tiny bit of excitement, but that's it.

    I'm much more looking forward to seeing Carol Marcus.
  9. Shilliam Watner

    Shilliam Watner Commander

    Feb 24, 2012
    In linear time
    What are they saying the indications are that makes Weller Admiral Marcus?
  10. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Oct 30, 1999
    John Harrison isn't the villain, he's just some hapless Starfleet officer who was killed by Lord Garth, the shapeshifter, and replaced so that he could carry out his nefarious schemes to insanely destroy the Federation bwahahaha!!! Cumby is playing two characters.

    Which leaves open the question, what does Lord Garth look like in reality? He needs to be an older guy - is that who Weller is playing?

    And that's my final answer, I'm sick of coming here and feeling like a damn ping pong ball! :rommie:
  11. Matt S

    Matt S Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Jul 29, 2012
    good theory, OP! They do want this to look Khan-centric. If Khan is in the movie, let it be Javier Bardem. The only actor alive who has the right size grapefruits, IMO
  12. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Dec 26, 2007
    Baltimore, MD
    The trailer gave pretty much every indication that BC is the villain.
  13. trekkiebaggio

    trekkiebaggio Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jul 20, 2004
    Dancing to the Jailhouse Rock
    This is a fun theory to consider :)
  14. Xaios

    Xaios Commander Red Shirt

    Aug 30, 2012
    I do think Cumbercatch is a villain based on what he says in the trailer, but the odds at this point also point to him at least being a sympathetic villain. His monologue in the teasure suggests that he's going to shatter the peace that Earth has enjoyed, which certainly seems... villainous. On the flipside, if it is him behind the glass at the end of the extended trailer (a theory which has been given more credence by the recently spoiled pic of his character in the brig opposite Kirk and Spock, separated by a glass pane), then that means that Spock is giving him the vulcan salute, something he probably wouldn't do unless he sympathized with him in a fairly significant way.

    It seems that Benny is a villain, but there's probably also another villain opposite him with which he is engaged, and the Enterprise is playing damage control, trying to help people who are caught in the crossfire, find a way to bring back peace, and save face for Starfleet.
  15. Vektor

    Vektor Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Mar 30, 2001
    Spokane, WA, USA
    I wasn't suggesting that Harrison isn't a villain. I have no doubt that he is up to some very bad things and will be the prime mover in this film, but there could be an even bigger villain not yet revealed, especially if Harrison truly is a completely original character and not somebody like Khan or Mitchell masquerading under an alias.
  16. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

    Aug 22, 2002
    Terra Inlandia
    Some recent interview excerpts may provide hints:

    Cumberbatch's character takes actions which are villainous. It seems clear that he is a villain, but "complicated" - could be room for another baddie (or at least someone who's less than good.)
  17. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    May 10, 2005
    The visitor's bullpen
    That might actually make sense, come to think of it. If nuGarth is taught shapeshifting, like Garth Prime was, and thus goes bonkers, he could kill somebody and replace them. Garth Prime almost did that in TOS.
  18. ROBE

    ROBE Commander Red Shirt

    Oct 23, 2008
    I pointed out on another post that Harrison is shown beating up a guy in blue top with black arms. According to the toy line these are the villains.
    Harrison is the Snape of Trek.
  19. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Nov 5, 2008
    King Daniel Beyond
    I thought the Kre-o toys listed the blue-torso/black arm uniformed characters as "specialists"?
  20. yousirname

    yousirname Commander Red Shirt

    Jan 30, 2013
    I do think there's still some basis for the notion that Weller is a villain and Cummerbund is his henchman gone rogue. If only because:

    Harrison does that Godfather 3/Matrix style helicopter shooting scene. The Matrix scene is the more important signifier as a reference, because part of Neo's job there was to be sure and not hit Morpheus, no? And we have reason to suspect Weller doesn't die in the shooting, which is dropping the ball a little bit if you're Harrison, isn't it? Unless he intentionally didn't hit Weller... and maybe Kirk also. Though the latter is based on my hunch that, like TDK and Skyfall, Harrison's capture will turn out to be part of his longer plan. So who knows?