You know his initial invitation to join the Discovery crew. I mean she did refuse when she thought they were working on a biological spore weapon (which as she pointed out was against Federation Law) but he convinced her with that quick trip around the quadrant. But what if even after that she had still refused to join, deciding to just quietly serve her time instead. Seeing as she’s the lynchpin to his ultimate goal of taking over the Empire, what do you think he’d have done?
What if...Burnham had refused Lorca’s invitation
- Thread starter Captain Killy
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he's a charming bastard, he would have found a way.
and his knowledge of MU Burnham helped him a lot to get the right angle the first time
and his knowledge of MU Burnham helped him a lot to get the right angle the first time
Would it have mattered? Regulations were on his side, he had the power to conscript her for the war effort, whether she liked it or not. It seems to me that he wanted her to join willingly, if possible, due to his previous MU connection with her counterpart. But I don't doubt he'd have just said "Well, tough. You're part of the team, anyway. The war needs you; this is your penance." Or some other manipulative response. It's what he's good at: getting people to do what he wants, even when they initially don't want to. Ask Paul Stamets.
Are we a 100% that all we've seen of Lorca is MU Lorca? Is that confirmed or is there a certain window were he could've been swapped?
The glib answer is that Lorca could've conscripted her or Lorca would've had to come across some other way to implement his plan.
The glib answer is that Lorca could've conscripted her or Lorca would've had to come across some other way to implement his plan.
As for the circumstances of her getting drafted, how much of it was Lorca's doing?
Lorca shouldn't have had the power to dictate or otherwise alter the flight plan of a prisoner transport shuttle (and not get caught of it afterwards - even killing the pilot wouldn't help much there). Lorca probably wouldn't have been able to drop a swarm of shuttlecraft-eating lifeforms in its path, either. What mechanism could Lorca have used for killing the pilot? And did he blow up the (now autopiloted?) shuttle and the three stooges afterwards (was that why Saru's ganglia got all excited when the shuttle departed)?
It really looks like Lorca should be a passive partner in that encounter - finding out about the transfer of Burnham from one facility to another, and then trying to intercept. Perhaps the swarm and the death of the pilot were just fortunate coincidences?
Or are we supposed to think it was destiny all along?
Timo Saloniemi
Lorca shouldn't have had the power to dictate or otherwise alter the flight plan of a prisoner transport shuttle (and not get caught of it afterwards - even killing the pilot wouldn't help much there). Lorca probably wouldn't have been able to drop a swarm of shuttlecraft-eating lifeforms in its path, either. What mechanism could Lorca have used for killing the pilot? And did he blow up the (now autopiloted?) shuttle and the three stooges afterwards (was that why Saru's ganglia got all excited when the shuttle departed)?
It really looks like Lorca should be a passive partner in that encounter - finding out about the transfer of Burnham from one facility to another, and then trying to intercept. Perhaps the swarm and the death of the pilot were just fortunate coincidences?
Or are we supposed to think it was destiny all along?
Timo Saloniemi
I did, but all he answered was "Don't go to the palace! The enemy is close! Captain Killy, can I have apple sauce to my ganglia please?"
Exactly... if he was willing to broadcast audio of crying children just to make Stamets do what he wanted, he could've figured out something to guilt trip Burnham with just as easily. And yea, he probably figured Prime Burnham would think similarly enough to MU Burnham for him to know what buttons of her he needed to push.
It seems clear that the only Lorca we've ever seen on the show is the mirror counterpart.
Not only does he ACT the same, but the USS Buran is the tipping point. Remember, when DSC's first episode takes place, Prime Lorca is still in command of the Buran. I doubt there's any way he could have been swapped while he was there, so the most likely explanation is that Prime Lorca was killed when the Buran was destroyed and MU Lorca happened along after the fact (and used it as a convenient excuse).
If this is so, then the ISS Buran was probably destroyed shortly before its prime counterpart was, to give Lorca time to reach the PU.
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Curious, why does everyone seem to think the shuttle pilot died? They could have just beamed her up when her tether broke.
Absolutely it’s been MU Lorca the whole time. The very first thing he says to Burnham is to comment on the dark room and explain that his eyes can’t adjust to quick light adjustments
Not sure if they said it was destroyed, but we do know they Claimed to have killed his crew, but still have them.
No, "Despite Yourself" did say the ISS Buran was actually destroyed.
The only survivor we know of is Lorca himself. And there's any number of explanations for that.
in the next time trailer, we see glimpses of other survivors, though
Lorca supposedly had followers everywhere: the survivors we saw need not have come from his ship.
Possibly so. Wouldn't we have seen her again then, though? I mean, these four were her responsibility. And if she was okay, she would have been piloting the shuttle on the next leg; if she was still recovering, she would be aboard when the shuttle leaves and thus a plot complication later on.
Timo Saloniemi
Possibly so. Wouldn't we have seen her again then, though? I mean, these four were her responsibility. And if she was okay, she would have been piloting the shuttle on the next leg; if she was still recovering, she would be aboard when the shuttle leaves and thus a plot complication later on.
Timo Saloniemi
Then the show would be called Star Trek: Yellow is the new Blue.
The last episode, we are told all his crew are in Agonizer booths, lined up in a cargo bay. The brought one in to see him.
Funny, cuz I once did a Trek RPG campaign called Star Trek: Deep Space Alcatraz which as the name implies was set on a Federation Prison station.
That's always been my assumption. The whole affair was staged to get Burnham onto the Discovery. It'd be less convincing to the prisoners if the pilot was with them when they landed (since there wouldn't be much reason for Landry to be messing with them if they were in someone else's custody), but it'd also be a pretty tough sell to get a pilot to both fly into a hazardous area of space and then cut her own line without a rescue plan just for a ruse.
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