This is getting very good.
What if Admiral Leyton's Coup Was Successful?
- Thread starter Emperor Norton
- Start date
To the Death
The rogue Jem'Hadar still attack the station after gain control of the building that the Gateway is in.
Dax and the new Bajoran Major each command a runabout into the Gamma Quadrant (given that the Maquis still have the Defiant). Dax on the Rio Grande, and the Bajoran Major on the Euphrates.
They still pick up Weyoon 4 and his troop of loyal Jem'Hadar (making the runabouts rather cramped).
Without Worf on the mission, the Jem'Hadar Second is not 'egged on' to the point of disobedience, and so survives until the mission.
The mission goes similarly. (The Gateway is destroyed, Weyoon 4 is vaporised and the First commits his troops to hunting down the remaining rogue Jem'Hadar.)
The Quickening
Happens similarly. (O'Brien and the new Bajoran Major, instead of Dax and Kira respectively).
Body Parts
Without a second female on her trip into the Gamma Quadrant (the new Major instead of Kira) Keiko looses the baby
.
In (slightly) better news, Quark doesn't loose his Ferengi Business Licence. With the Klingons still blockading the system, he's unable to make a trip to Ferenginar.
Comments?
The rogue Jem'Hadar still attack the station after gain control of the building that the Gateway is in.
Dax and the new Bajoran Major each command a runabout into the Gamma Quadrant (given that the Maquis still have the Defiant). Dax on the Rio Grande, and the Bajoran Major on the Euphrates.
They still pick up Weyoon 4 and his troop of loyal Jem'Hadar (making the runabouts rather cramped).
Without Worf on the mission, the Jem'Hadar Second is not 'egged on' to the point of disobedience, and so survives until the mission.
The mission goes similarly. (The Gateway is destroyed, Weyoon 4 is vaporised and the First commits his troops to hunting down the remaining rogue Jem'Hadar.)
The Quickening
Happens similarly. (O'Brien and the new Bajoran Major, instead of Dax and Kira respectively).
Body Parts
Without a second female on her trip into the Gamma Quadrant (the new Major instead of Kira) Keiko looses the baby
In (slightly) better news, Quark doesn't loose his Ferengi Business Licence. With the Klingons still blockading the system, he's unable to make a trip to Ferenginar.
Comments?
I'm not familiar enough with DS9 to comment as well as others. I do like the way you're doing it, and the way I'm thinking about it myself is as if this was happening in the 1990s in real time. Although the divergences should build up over time till its a fair bit different from the franchise.
On another topic, I've been rewatching TNG. It seems like "Yesterday's Enterprise" is a great example of the way this Federation/Starfleet could go, and shows it really is reasonable for it to go that way. The Dominion war would really temper it in fire, and it would come out militarized and rigid and dictatorial, and darker.
And I remember what bugged me about that era of Star Trek (which I commented on earlier). Dear lord are there so many bad guys who deserve their sun to go supernova (example being the Satarrans).
On another topic, I've been rewatching TNG. It seems like "Yesterday's Enterprise" is a great example of the way this Federation/Starfleet could go, and shows it really is reasonable for it to go that way. The Dominion war would really temper it in fire, and it would come out militarized and rigid and dictatorial, and darker.
And I remember what bugged me about that era of Star Trek (which I commented on earlier). Dear lord are there so many bad guys who deserve their sun to go supernova (example being the Satarrans).
So many times I've seen an episode where I wish that Starfleet would go Covenant on someone and just glass their planet with General Order 24.
For the Michael Ironside character, I've been thinking of a name:
Commander Korbo.
Commander Korbo.
Suggestions:
Restorationists? (Because they want to restore the proper Federation governance?) "Rezzies" for short.
Constitutionalists? (Same reason.) "Connies" for short.
Unionists?
Republicans? (ick, but still
)And finally, a name that comes after the leader trying to restore the Federation: Baccoists, Picardists, Calhounists, etc.
The ideas about an anti-Leyton force gets complicated, and partially relates to the thread I put up about the Maquis continuing. (Ok, relates a lot). The way I see it, whatever rebel forces there are would fuse in with the already existing Maquis; the only issue being how long that merge would take and how thorough. The counter argument is that Leyton would probably decimate the Maquis to the best of his ability. It could be before the Dominion war, during, or after, but it would probably happen. I mentioned earlier Sisko's biowarfare becoming a national policy. So there is that.
I dunno - a lot of anti-Leyton Starfleet forces might be disinclined to join them, and for that matter, nothing says that all of them would even be under a unified command. Instead of *one* of the names I mentioned above, we might have *all* of them plus the Marquis, cooperating at times, competing at others, and it might take until Voyager comes back with a high-ranking Starfleet officer and a Marquis leader that have worked together for a while, to understand how to unify the groups. If Leyton hasn't completely decimated them by then.
(Good grief - did I honestly just suggest Janeway and Chuckles might be GOOD for something?!
)
I dunno - a lot of anti-Leyton Starfleet forces might be disinclined to join them, and for that matter, nothing says that all of them would even be under a unified command. Instead of *one* of the names I mentioned above, we might have *all* of them plus the Marquis, cooperating at times, competing at others, and it might take until Voyager comes back with a high-ranking Starfleet officer and a Marquis leader that have worked together for a while, to understand how to unify the groups. If Leyton hasn't completely decimated them by then.
(Good grief - did I honestly just suggest Janeway and Chuckles might be GOOD for something?!
I don't disagree, but things do tend to settle into twos. Even if it's a chaotic, dis-unified two. I do think that the Maquis are the natural element to fuse with...if they're still there. But there would be an assortment of rebels and secessionist factions.
Another thing I've been thinking about, but am not sure how to do it or if it would be a good narrative, is Leyton's Federation curbstomping the Cardassians, and Bajor really rising up as an expansionist, first world power. And one at odds with the Federation, because I like that idea from "Parallels". Those look like two conflicting ideas, though. A Bajor that benefits from the Federation decimating the Cardassian Union seems like one that would be close to the UFP, while one at odds with the UFP would be one which would probably not benefit since it's at odds with the superpower.
...unless the Bajoran elements that were concerned about the Federation just being another occupational power replacing the Cardassians gained political power. Which might be even more likely since it looks like the Federation has become a dictatorship.
Adding to that (and I'm reading up on things because I only know so much of DS9):
Fardell mentioned in his episode list Akorem Laan becoming Emissary. Which is an interesting idea. Akorem was introducing all sorts of conservative traditions that had long fallen out of favor, such as the caste system, which meant they could not be accepted into the Federation under Federation rules. Now, you could argue that those rules could be changed by the dictatorship or excuses could be made, but let's say that Bajor goes along with it and doesn't join the Federation. Plus, add in a traditionalist, conservative government which would seem to also want to reclaim Bajor's glory, territorial and otherwise.
I have mixed feelings on the idea, since I'd prefer Bajorians to not be that since the caste system seems very cruel, but it is a thought.
Such a thing would open up the Bajorans to what I interpret this Federation as doing as well: looking into the darkness until it looks back, and becoming the enemy. The Federation fears the Dominion, and becomes what they fear of the Dominion. The Bajorans fear the Federation, and become what they feared in the Federation.
The issue on Akorem is the Prophets don't actually want him. They want Sisko. So I'm not sure how that goes. Maybe he stays put as a pretender of sorts? I don't know. And it seems like maybe the Prophets could pull some time/space shenanigans to get what they want, all Bioshock Infinite ending style.
EDIT:
And, on a completely different topic, what becomes of Jake Sisko?
How does one act as a journalist in a media that would be increasingly censored and controlled? And it would be especially problematic if Ben Sisko was on Leyton's side.
Part 1
Situation in Early December 2372 [1]
The Alpha Quadrant
The Third Republic of Bajor
The Ba'hava'el [2] system remains under blockade by the Klingon Defence Force. First Minister Shakaar has been continually hounding Chancellor Gowron about ending the blockade, to no avail.
The reinstitution of the d'jarras under Emissary Akorem (supported by Kai Winn) has caused unrest. Many former members of the Resistance have taken up arms in remote areas of the planet. (This doesn't include Kira Nerys, she's still attempting to be an artist, but she may join them at some point).
The d'jarras have only been instituted on Bajor itself. The outlying planets still haven't adopted them. (Most of their populations still believe that Sisko is the Emissary, and that Akorem has taken advantage of his absence.)
Relations - It goes without saying that they are hostile towards the Cardassians.... Hostility is increasing towards the Klingons. They won't drop their blockade. They have also declared neutrality in the Federation's internal struggles. Shakaar is debating allying with the Ferengi. They had temporarily broken the blockade to end Rom's strike, after all...
The Ferengi Alliance
Troubles have come to this economic alliance. Strikes, once considered anathema to almost all Ferengi are increasing, since the news of Rom's Strike entered the Alliance. Even with the main media censoring the information, the news has caused many exploited workers to begin their own strikes, even on Ferenginar itself... Grand Nagus Zek has attempted to shift the blame to the Klingons. It was they who inspired Rom to strike against Quark and then refused entry to the FCA liquidator who was sent to break it before the news spread.
Zek has considered allying with Shakaar to drive the Klingons away from the wormhole so as to regain access to the lucrative profits in the Gamma Quadrant (If only the Dominion wasn't dominating the known markets there), and to bring the Bajorans further into their economic control... (If only they didn't consider fighting against the Cardassians' enemies anathema).
The Klingon Empire
Conquest, glorius honorable conquest. That is what most Klingons hear coming out of Qo'nos these days. The campaign against the Changeling controlled Cardassians continues.
The Cardassian War continues.
Gowron rejoiced when news of Worf's arrest reached him. ('Now he will rot in dishonor in a Bajoran prison'). However he is annoyed with Shakaar and Zek's continual requests to drop the blockade, and laughs at the idea of a Ferengi-Bajoran alliance.
The Cardassian campaign isn't the only front in the Anti-Founder War (as the High Council calls it). The Defence Force has also been sent into Federation Territory and have engaged Leyton's forces. ('That Changeling will not succeed in controlling the entire Federation!')
He refuses to talk to Leyton.
The Cardassian Union
Is in shambles. The Depata Council continues to try to hold the Klingons back. (Dukat continues his guerrilla campaign in the Bird of Prey.)
[1]
The fourth season of Deep Space Nine and the second season of Voyager are set in 2372.
This post details the situation following the Episodes Body Parts and Resolutions.
[2] Ba'hava'el - The name for Bajor's star.
[3] Information about the Federation, Romulans and the Dominion will be posted next.
Situation in Early December 2372 [1]
The Alpha Quadrant
The Third Republic of Bajor
The Ba'hava'el [2] system remains under blockade by the Klingon Defence Force. First Minister Shakaar has been continually hounding Chancellor Gowron about ending the blockade, to no avail.
The reinstitution of the d'jarras under Emissary Akorem (supported by Kai Winn) has caused unrest. Many former members of the Resistance have taken up arms in remote areas of the planet. (This doesn't include Kira Nerys, she's still attempting to be an artist, but she may join them at some point).
The d'jarras have only been instituted on Bajor itself. The outlying planets still haven't adopted them. (Most of their populations still believe that Sisko is the Emissary, and that Akorem has taken advantage of his absence.)
Relations - It goes without saying that they are hostile towards the Cardassians.... Hostility is increasing towards the Klingons. They won't drop their blockade. They have also declared neutrality in the Federation's internal struggles. Shakaar is debating allying with the Ferengi. They had temporarily broken the blockade to end Rom's strike, after all...
The Ferengi Alliance
Troubles have come to this economic alliance. Strikes, once considered anathema to almost all Ferengi are increasing, since the news of Rom's Strike entered the Alliance. Even with the main media censoring the information, the news has caused many exploited workers to begin their own strikes, even on Ferenginar itself... Grand Nagus Zek has attempted to shift the blame to the Klingons. It was they who inspired Rom to strike against Quark and then refused entry to the FCA liquidator who was sent to break it before the news spread.
Zek has considered allying with Shakaar to drive the Klingons away from the wormhole so as to regain access to the lucrative profits in the Gamma Quadrant (If only the Dominion wasn't dominating the known markets there), and to bring the Bajorans further into their economic control... (If only they didn't consider fighting against the Cardassians' enemies anathema).
The Klingon Empire
Conquest, glorius honorable conquest. That is what most Klingons hear coming out of Qo'nos these days. The campaign against the Changeling controlled Cardassians continues.
The Cardassian War continues.
Gowron rejoiced when news of Worf's arrest reached him. ('Now he will rot in dishonor in a Bajoran prison'). However he is annoyed with Shakaar and Zek's continual requests to drop the blockade, and laughs at the idea of a Ferengi-Bajoran alliance.
The Cardassian campaign isn't the only front in the Anti-Founder War (as the High Council calls it). The Defence Force has also been sent into Federation Territory and have engaged Leyton's forces. ('That Changeling will not succeed in controlling the entire Federation!')
He refuses to talk to Leyton.
The Cardassian Union
Is in shambles. The Depata Council continues to try to hold the Klingons back. (Dukat continues his guerrilla campaign in the Bird of Prey.)
[1]
The fourth season of Deep Space Nine and the second season of Voyager are set in 2372.
This post details the situation following the Episodes Body Parts and Resolutions.
[2] Ba'hava'el - The name for Bajor's star.
[3] Information about the Federation, Romulans and the Dominion will be posted next.
I've been watching Accession. Am I permitted to say Akorem Laan is a ****?
The Bajorans also come across like a space India, with that caste system (and all the negatives related to it), great ancient history, great potential for the future, but many internal problems to overcome, all in a post-colonial world. Albeit the British would be swapped out for the Nazis.
The Bajorans also come across like a space India, with that caste system (and all the negatives related to it), great ancient history, great potential for the future, but many internal problems to overcome, all in a post-colonial world. Albeit the British would be swapped out for the Nazis.
Did the Bajorans ever have colonies, perchance? I know there were refugee colonies and New Bajor. You can elaborate on what Bajor may have had post-occupation, but I was thinking more pre-occupation colonies that a militarist Bajor may have interest in retaking.
Yes. However, I suspect that the strong unifying effect of their religion would preclude conquest, since the colonies would continue to see Bajor as being of central importance, unless it was a colony founded by a radical sect or outright infidels. It seems more likely to me that a rearmed and revitalized post-occupation militarist Bajor might want to "take back some of theirs" by going after *Cardassian* colonies and bases.
I meant along the lines of this:
The Bajorans have existed for millenia, and have been in space since the European Renaissance. Even saying their technological development didn't proceed quickly (as is a discussion found elsewhere) it stands to reason they could have established colonies.
Given they have been in space for centuries, it stands to reason that some of those worlds were lost along the way. And given the Cardassian occupation, there is no way those colonies remained Bajoran. Either the Cardassians would have taken them, or they'd have lost contact with the homeworld and been abandoned, or maybe they would have tried to make it on their own, though given what we've seen of Bajoran refugees, the conclusion can be drawn they wouldn't have done all that well; otherwise, why aren't those refugees there?
A militarist Bajor could go with the idea of reclaiming what is theirs. And I agree that I could see them going after Cardassia, both in worlds the Bajorans laid claim to that the Cardassians never returned, and just out of revenge against Cardassian targets in general.
It can get complicated, though. It's one thing to join by choice; it's another by force. With worlds that were once Bajoran, what about whoever is living there now, whether they be Cardassians or another species? With worlds that maybe still are Bajoran inhabited, what about the culture and differences that have built up there over however many decades, where maybe they don't want to join or want to think about it, but will be made to by force?
On the topic of Bajorans worlds that somehow didn't get taken by the Cardassians themselves, I don't see how, with what we've seen in canon, you could have them be first rate worlds with countless cities and billions of inhabitants. Probably small settlements and maybe a few large population centers at most.
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On another topic, I am interested in seeing what Farrell will do with the episode "Valiant".
Red Squad is set up in the narrative, from it's first iteration, as the sort of Hitler Youth of the cabal. It's the elite of the elite, handpicked and cultivated. And we get a bad vibe from them. Taking into account Homefront and Paradise Lost, and Valiant, they're egotistical, self righteous, young and are feigning and playing adult officers...and they really might not be that elite.
"Valiant" just oozes that. They're all embarrassingly feigning adulthood and professionalism like a kid playing house, the first officer is something it's not polite to say, the captain could go back to Federation space but doesn't because he doesn't want to go back to being a cadet and he's a drug addict, and they're all morons who get themselves killed.
I think the intent may have been to do a send up and parody of Star Trek itself. Tim Watters is trying to play Captain Kirk and they're all doing this self confident happy go lucky seeking glory thing ... and it gets them killed. The scene before they attack the Jem'H-however you spell it ship, with the music and the montage, is a parody and were it real it would have proceeded a "valiant" victory, but it doesn't.
The way I see it, I think Red Squad would have been the Hitler Youth of a post coup government, and I think Tim Watters would have been a sort of protege of Leyton and a propaganda piece; eventually given his own command, awarded a number of medals and sold as what a captain should be, while in reality his egotism gets people constantly killed and injured unnecessarily in a sort of subversion of Captain Kirk. The reasoning I'll give for why he'd be so is that he seems like he was a prominent member, if not the leader, of Red Squad, hence my idea that he'd be sold as this golden boy.
Red Squad is set up in the narrative, from it's first iteration, as the sort of Hitler Youth of the cabal. It's the elite of the elite, handpicked and cultivated. And we get a bad vibe from them. Taking into account Homefront and Paradise Lost, and Valiant, they're egotistical, self righteous, young and are feigning and playing adult officers...and they really might not be that elite.
"Valiant" just oozes that. They're all embarrassingly feigning adulthood and professionalism like a kid playing house, the first officer is something it's not polite to say, the captain could go back to Federation space but doesn't because he doesn't want to go back to being a cadet and he's a drug addict, and they're all morons who get themselves killed.
I think the intent may have been to do a send up and parody of Star Trek itself. Tim Watters is trying to play Captain Kirk and they're all doing this self confident happy go lucky seeking glory thing ... and it gets them killed. The scene before they attack the Jem'H-however you spell it ship, with the music and the montage, is a parody and were it real it would have proceeded a "valiant" victory, but it doesn't.
The way I see it, I think Red Squad would have been the Hitler Youth of a post coup government, and I think Tim Watters would have been a sort of protege of Leyton and a propaganda piece; eventually given his own command, awarded a number of medals and sold as what a captain should be, while in reality his egotism gets people constantly killed and injured unnecessarily in a sort of subversion of Captain Kirk. The reasoning I'll give for why he'd be so is that he seems like he was a prominent member, if not the leader, of Red Squad, hence my idea that he'd be sold as this golden boy.
I've been thinking about where the USS Enterprise would fall in all this. I do think it would go against Leyton at some point. If there is a rebellion or secessionist group (add plurals as needed) which lasts anywhere in anyway, I think the Enterprise would be one of the prominent ships with it. Or it could just get destroyed with everyone killed. That would certainly be dark, but it may not necessarily be what is best for the narrative.
Personally, my ideas would include killing off Picard in some way and having Riker become Captain. I've always been fascinated with that, and certainly Picard dying goes with a narrative sense of innocence and/or purity dying too in the Federation, if Sisko joined with Leyton it'd be completely a sort of story arc from that scene in the pilot where Sisko hated Picard, it'd give a sense in the narrative that no one is safe, and so on. Or he could be some sort of Ambassador or something.
A critique of Captain Riker would be, depending on when he became Captain, he may be too old and past his prime to be what we'd want in a Riker who Captain's the Enterprise. In TNG when he was Captain in "Parallels", or when he could have been Captain in "The Best of Both Worlds" or when he took the command chair, it was a Riker relatively young and full of life and the kind of Riker we'd want to be Captain. By "Nemesis" he feels 50 (which he was). You could still do it, but depending on the era, what Captain Riker would feel like varies.
Assuming it does leave the Federation, and assuming it does join some organized secession/rebellion/whatever, I would take crew off of the Enterprise to have fulfill some role in that "whatever" thing. Geordi could join with Scotty to oversee Engineering projects, Worf (assuming he's not arrested or is somehow sprung, per Farell's scenario) could be an ambassador to try to get Klingon support, Data could be given his own captaincy after a while since they'd need captains, etc.
And that leaves the Enterprise open to new crew, and you could play with the people from the movies and show who got killed or assimilated or left. All the films, except for "Generations", take place after that change to history. So there's no reason for Lt Hawk to get assimilated, and maybe Paul Porter could become Chief Engineer. And maybe you could bring back Ro Laren, and make her First Officer in some sort of situation where the multiple factions of this counter-Leyton group are trying to get along, and they want this Maquis in alongside these Federationists, ala the Maquis fusing in with the Voyager crew. And she'd be a familiar face and a source of interesting tension and all sorts of things (from what I can recall, Riker didn't care for her). And with that in mind, if you really wanted to, you could get Thomas Riker on the Enterprise as well. But that may be too much.
Another thought I had related to Picard dying was also that somehow Picard returns and is this upstanding Starfleet officer in Leyton's Federation. (And let's say Picard had died before the Enterprise left the Federation). And everyone who knew Picard is shocked by this. And maybe Leyton dies and Picard takes command and pledges to end threats to the Federation once and for all and so forth. And what it turns out to be is not Picard, but a clone that the Romulans had produced which Section 31 kidnapped, advanced aged and brainwashed to become Picard. It's Shinzon. So that'd be the alternate Star Trek Nemesis.
Anyway, those are just thoughts. There's countless possibilities for what you could do with the Enterprise in the scenario.
Personally, my ideas would include killing off Picard in some way and having Riker become Captain. I've always been fascinated with that, and certainly Picard dying goes with a narrative sense of innocence and/or purity dying too in the Federation, if Sisko joined with Leyton it'd be completely a sort of story arc from that scene in the pilot where Sisko hated Picard, it'd give a sense in the narrative that no one is safe, and so on. Or he could be some sort of Ambassador or something.
A critique of Captain Riker would be, depending on when he became Captain, he may be too old and past his prime to be what we'd want in a Riker who Captain's the Enterprise. In TNG when he was Captain in "Parallels", or when he could have been Captain in "The Best of Both Worlds" or when he took the command chair, it was a Riker relatively young and full of life and the kind of Riker we'd want to be Captain. By "Nemesis" he feels 50 (which he was). You could still do it, but depending on the era, what Captain Riker would feel like varies.
Assuming it does leave the Federation, and assuming it does join some organized secession/rebellion/whatever, I would take crew off of the Enterprise to have fulfill some role in that "whatever" thing. Geordi could join with Scotty to oversee Engineering projects, Worf (assuming he's not arrested or is somehow sprung, per Farell's scenario) could be an ambassador to try to get Klingon support, Data could be given his own captaincy after a while since they'd need captains, etc.
And that leaves the Enterprise open to new crew, and you could play with the people from the movies and show who got killed or assimilated or left. All the films, except for "Generations", take place after that change to history. So there's no reason for Lt Hawk to get assimilated, and maybe Paul Porter could become Chief Engineer. And maybe you could bring back Ro Laren, and make her First Officer in some sort of situation where the multiple factions of this counter-Leyton group are trying to get along, and they want this Maquis in alongside these Federationists, ala the Maquis fusing in with the Voyager crew. And she'd be a familiar face and a source of interesting tension and all sorts of things (from what I can recall, Riker didn't care for her). And with that in mind, if you really wanted to, you could get Thomas Riker on the Enterprise as well. But that may be too much.
Another thought I had related to Picard dying was also that somehow Picard returns and is this upstanding Starfleet officer in Leyton's Federation. (And let's say Picard had died before the Enterprise left the Federation). And everyone who knew Picard is shocked by this. And maybe Leyton dies and Picard takes command and pledges to end threats to the Federation once and for all and so forth. And what it turns out to be is not Picard, but a clone that the Romulans had produced which Section 31 kidnapped, advanced aged and brainwashed to become Picard. It's Shinzon. So that'd be the alternate Star Trek Nemesis.
Anyway, those are just thoughts. There's countless possibilities for what you could do with the Enterprise in the scenario.
