What I Don't Like About the USS Kelvin

[Sci]

Yeah? Well, the USS Kelvin doesn't like you, either! Take that!

 

[SilentP]

I managed to count 20 shuttles that survived to the frame before the fade towards the title part. With 800 people to sort between them, does anyone think 40 people per shuttle is a stretch (or somewhere close to that number in case Pike was rounding up etc.), especially if not every shuttle was packed, like the medical one, or do you reckon that those shuttles are spacious enough to hold 40 each?

 

[FrankR]

I managed to count 20 shuttles that survived to the frame before the fade towards the title part. With 800 people to sort between them, does anyone think 40 people per shuttle is a stretch (or somewhere close to that number in case Pike was rounding up etc.), especially if not every shuttle was packed, like the medical one, or do you reckon that those shuttles are spacious enough to hold 40 each?

Think about it this way: "Ensign; get in the shuttle with those other 39 people and live or stay here and die."

I believe there was a thread a few weeks ago on this very topic.

 

[SilentP]

Think about it this way: "Ensign; get in the shuttle with those other 39 people and live or stay here and die."

I believe there was a thread a few weeks ago on this very topic.

Hehe, true Guess I'm still not used to these beefier sized shuttles compared to the ones that have been on all the other shows.

 

[Jeri]

Yes, there was and earlier thread. It was said shuttles can hold 50 individuals; the academy shuttle that Kirk and McCoy boarded looked like it could. Also, in the book, George Kirk had to set a course somewhere down below where the Narada weapons could get him and make sure they didn't destroy him before the collision. He also programmed the auto-destruct to blow up simultaneously with the collision for an extra-nice explosion. The Narada would have been fixing that for a long time. There much to like about the Kelvin.

 

[Messianni]

And this is why people make fun of nerds.

Says the person registered to a Star Trek message board.

 

[CuttingEdge100]

Temper, Temper folks!

I think Captain Robau was pretty cool, for the record...

I just think the ship didn't conform to pre-timewarp events. Everything after 2233/4 was changed... but stuff PRIOR to 2233/4 was the same right?

Then how could the ship be bigger than the Constitution Class which was supposed to be the biggest ship?

While Gene Roddenberry is dead, all the way until Nemesis, you didn't see rocket like exhaust shoot out the backs of the warp-nacelles...

And the reason why I state that the ship could not separate was because if they could, you'd figure in these circumstances they probably would! Plus the whole idea of twin-hulls was so that they could separate the primary hull as a lifeboat.


CuttingEdge100

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Then how could the ship be bigger than the Constitution Class which was supposed to be the biggest ship?

When and were was it ever stated the the Constitution was the biggest ship?

 

[Qonos]

Even though the ship has two hulls (engineering and primary), apparently the primary hull is incapable of separating, and acting as a lifeboat as was the intentions of Matt Jeffries.

The ship also does not appear to have any conventional lifeboats and instead just has shitloads of shuttlecraft which are used apparently as lifeboats.

The ship (due to the lack of a separating saucer or lifeboats, and instead requiring buttloads of shuttles) is apparently monstrous in size just looking at the shuttlebay. I think I also saw a size comparison of the new Enterprise with the USS Kelvin and it also reflected that the Kelvin was a very large vessel, and when in combination with the 800-man crew, in most likelyhood, is larger than the (original) Constitution-Class (Which as of 2265, 32 years after the Kelvin's destruction, was the largest class of ship in the Federation inventory)

The engineering-hull looks quite small in size (not to mention, it looks like the bridge would be in the way of the deflector field) compared to the primary hull.

The warp-engine looks gigantically oversized, and the back has a glowing blue exhaust even when not at warp (Considering the ship has regular impulse engines, the argument that this is an impulse engine is moot). Gene Roddenberry specifically said when he created Star Trek that he did *NOT* want to see flamin' rocket-like exhaust shooting out the back of the ship (granted he also said he wanted warp-engines in pairs but that view actually seems to have varied over time) something which has been maintained all the way up to Star Trek Nemesis (which in my opinion sucked)

The interior of the ship looks completely trashy and junky, particularly that gigantic elevator shaft that extends right down into the shuttlebay if I recall. In every Starfleet ship shown in Star Trek, even the NX-01 Enterprise did not look that crude, trashy and junky, nor did it have a long giant elevator shaft hanging down all the way into the shuttlebay like that. The turbolifts always seemed to be "behind doors" and you never actually saw the elevator shaft.

The point-defense cannons the ship has was never seen on any other Federation-Ship, and the sheer number of overall weapons was ludicrous for that timeframe.


While this isn't really a complaint, or a gripe about the Kelvin, I am wondering why the Kelvin didn't blow up after just one volley, or just one shot for that matter.

The Constitution Class vessel shown in TOS had been refitted two or three times from when it was first commissioned and was in most likelyhood fitted with far more powerful shields and weapons.

The Refit Enterprise in TMP, had substantially more powerful deflectors than the TOS Enterprise, and apparently it would seem that it's force-fields were several times more powerful than the K'Tinga's which themselves had more shielding and deflectors than the D-7's which were about rivalable to the Constitution-Class.

The Refit Enterprise first flew in 2272 or 2273, and Nero's ship, while not a fleet-vessel (Romulan in this case) would have most likely been around during the Dominion war, and during wars even transport ships are often fitted with guns, generally ones that can at least do a little bit of damage to defend themselves against hostiles. Considering Nero's ship was from 2387, 114 or 115 years after the Enterprise Refit (TMP), in which time, shields, and weapons technology has increased DRASTICALLY (Particularly during the dominion war and conflicts the Federation had with the Borg)

The difference in shielding capability and weapons capability the Kelvin would have had would have been virtually nonexistant compared to the Narada, and I'm just amazed the ship didn't get cut up in one volley...


CuttingEdge100

um.. Stop, just stop. You're talking about the advantages and disadvantages of a fictional ship that hasn't been built with technologies that don't exist. Doesn't that set of some flags in your head that maybe you need to sit down, smoke a blunt and eat a bowl of ice cream? Have Trek fans become this Anal? I had no problems with the ship because. IT DOESN'T Actually exist. You do realize that Starship design in Star Trek is one of the most unrealistic things about Star Trek. I mean how does the Deflector system work when the ship has a shelf over it in the primary hull? How far out does the Deflector cone go and when does it's effectiveness become comprimised?

Why do you need two Warp Nacelles to create a warp bubble around the ship? I never understood that especially when other stronger space warp (fold) theories have one fold engine inside the ship creating the fold pocket.


There's more but I don't need to dig out my geek card yet.

 

[Crusher Disciple]

Well, you can just forget it; there's nothing to dislike about the Kelvin.

She did seem to have a rather fetching chain of command. And a cute doctor.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

While Gene Roddenberry is dead, all the way until Nemesis, you didn't see rocket like exhaust shoot out the backs of the warp-nacelles...

ST: XI had bright flashes coming from the nacelles. Not terribly different from TNG in that respect really, except that the thingy is on the back.

Nemesis had literal exhaust coming out the the nacelles when the Enterprise jumped to warp.

 

[Crusher Disciple]

While Gene Roddenberry is dead, all the way until Nemesis, you didn't see rocket like exhaust shoot out the backs of the warp-nacelles...

ST: XI had bright flashes coming from the nacelles. Not terribly different from TNG in that respect really, except that the thingy is on the back.

Nemesis had literal exhaust coming out the the nacelles when the Enterprise jumped to warp.

Dude, that was farting.

 

[Silversmok3]

I managed to count 20 shuttles that survived to the frame before the fade towards the title part. With 800 people to sort between them, does anyone think 40 people per shuttle is a stretch (or somewhere close to that number in case Pike was rounding up etc.), especially if not every shuttle was packed, like the medical one, or do you reckon that those shuttles are spacious enough to hold 40 each?

Well,methinks a lot of those 800 crew bit it when Nero savaged the Kelvin beforehand. How many of those unfortunate souls in number we really cant calculate,but with casualties considered thered be far less than 800 who'd need a lift off the ship.

 

[Jeri]

Well, you can just forget it; there's nothing to dislike about the Kelvin.

She did seem to have a rather fetching chain of command. And a cute doctor.

Dude piloting the shuttle was, too, in addition to aforementioned.

Well,methinks a lot of those 800 crew bit it when Nero savaged the Kelvin beforehand. How many of those unfortunate souls in number we really cant calculate,but with casualties considered thered be far less than 800 who'd need a lift off the ship.

Kirk's dad saved 800 lives -- quoth Christopher Pike. So -- not dead.

 

[BorgPhil]

is it possible that the 800 people saved weren't all necessarily on the Kelvin? We heard them comminicating with a starbase, Pike could have included the people on that who would have also been at risk if the Narada hadn't been disabled, assuming it was pretty close by.

 

[Fish1941]

Why did Nero attack the Kelvin?

 

[Thestral]

SNIP lost list of complaints

CuttingEdge100

Aside from that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?

Why did Nero attack the Kelvin?

For friends of the family who died on Romulus, maybe his in-laws? To wit:

(mods, I'm not sure if this image is okay... hopefully? )

 

[Plecostomus]

I just think the ship didn't conform to pre-timewarp events. Everything after 2233/4 was changed... but stuff PRIOR to 2233/4 was the same right?


CuttingEdge100

Ever consider joining a Church? Devote some of this asinine nitpicking twords worshiping the Lord? We have ONE TRUE GOSPEL that never changes and is not open to debate.

In other words we have a canon that you can devote yourself to... as opposed to this endless wanking over an act of fiction that can be smoothed over by using your imagination.

 

[Praetor]

Well:

1. We don't know that the 1701 Enterprise was the biggest ship in TOS. All we know is that a "starship" is something special, and there were only twelve like her. Some fans have no problem with three-nacelle dreadnoughts, myself among them.
2. Older technology could potentially make for a greater crew and bigger ship in the form of the Kelvin. (Although I still have issues with 800 people fleeing in those shuttles... )
3. I don't think the Kelvin's warp core is necessarily in the secondary hull - I think it's all hangar. I somehow think the reactor might be contained in the warp nacelle, which could then itself simply be ejected. If the warp core is in the secondary hull, ejection of both the secondary hull and nacelle might be possible.

In any case, I wouldn't stress over it.

 

[The Badger]

Just as an idea, something to toss back and forth: we know George Kirk saved 800 lives. Is it possible that the Kelvin was transporting people at the time she encountered the Narada?

It's own standard crew might be a lot less than that. And if the Kelvin were carrying passengers, perhaps she had a greater than usual number of shuttles too? Perhaps larger ones with increased cargo capacity.

Why did Nero attack the Kelvin?

He'd set off on a mission to destroy federation worlds. After going through the wormhole the first thing he sees is a federation ship. He also needs to interrogate someone about the location of Spock, and isn't in the mood for a friendly chat.