What I always thought was funny with time limits...

[spoonunseptium]

This may not be absolutely "Tech," but I thought it related well enough.


In many episodes from all of the movies and all of the series, and specific tool of suspense is this:


"5 minutes until we crash!"

"But remodulating the blahdey-blah will take 7!"

"We don't have 7 minutes, get it done in 5!"


And, somehow, Star Engineer gets it done.


I was wondering- these people, modulating and repolarizing and whatever, are manipulating and re-programming computers - they're not punching giant slugs or eating apple pies. How can you make a computer do something faster in a crunch if it doesn't go that fast all the time? I know many of these instances in various episodes involve, I guess, reorganizing wires and microchips and lasering things, but I've never understood how they could make the process go any faster.

Unless, ofcourse, they make themselves think faster and move their fingers faster.

My favorite reaction to this is Scotty in TOS, who always tells Kirk that he can't make things go any faster.


And, the most practical solution to this is Data in The Naked Now, when he is the only one who can put the computer chips back where they go..because he's a computer and can do it faster than a human (It was one of those "14 minutes till we get hit by space evil!" "But that'll take 2 hours to do!" "We don't have 2 hours...get it done in 14 minutes!" things).


Anyway. Anyone got a justification as to how the engineers can get a computer to do something faster when it's not supposed to be able to?

 

[T'Ressa Dax]

Overestimating thei time they need? But wait, that's only Scotty, La Forge denies doing it in Relics... I got nothing. Except just ignoring the problem...

 

[Myasishchev]

I pray for the series where the captain asks the engineer to do something in a retardedly short amount of time, and the engineer just tells him to shut his stupid mouth, "I said five minutes because I meant five minutes."

Those who can think, do Science, those who can do, do Operations, those who can do neither, do Command.

 

[Timo]

I thought they actually did a scene like that with Torres in VOY? Or perhaps I was just daydreaming.

Anyway, there's a perfectly good way of getting it done in 5 minutes if it necessarily takes 10: redefine "it". That is, only do part of what is being asked, and decide for yourself what is the relevant part. Whether you tell your CO what you left out or not is up to you. I like how Leland-T'Lynch sort of does both in "Skin of Evil": he takes his sweet time with the dilithium realignment, then tells he skipped all the diagnostics and our lives are on your conscience now, Captain Jean-Luc Picard, Sir.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JNG]

I thought they actually did a scene like that with Torres in VOY?

Indeed they did. A character defining moment for her, I'd say.

I guess sometimes they cut down on the time estimates by trying to use unorthodox methods instead of the expected ones.

This is a kind of false drama I don't much care for, though. Even if the unexpected happened and the engineer didn't get it done in time, it might be hard for the viewing audience to understand this as a relatable failure, just as I don't think many audience members are on the edges of their seats about what someone will reroute to save the day.

 

[Timo]

It would also be interesting to see the captain call for a speed past the recommended limits, and get a warning from the engineer; then get a second warning, and ignore that; and, instead of reaching the destination in time, end up with a crippled ship floating in the middle of nowhere, perhaps with a few engineers dead next to an exploded key component. But no, exceeding design limitations carries no penalty.

I mean, exceeding written-down stuff is one thing. Exceeding things when the engineer says no should be another.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

But no, exceeding design limitations carries no penalty.

That, I believe, is called Tim Taylor technology.

 

[JNG]

It would also be interesting to see the captain call for a speed past the recommended limits, and get a warning from the engineer; then get a second warning, and ignore that; and, instead of reaching the destination in time, end up with a crippled ship floating in the middle of nowhere, perhaps with a few engineers dead next to an exploded key component. But no, exceeding design limitations carries no penalty.

I mean, exceeding written-down stuff is one thing. Exceeding things when the engineer says no should be another.

Timo Saloniemi

There was that pretty good conversation Dax and Kira had in "Paradise" where they tried to "rope" the unmanned, warping runabout with a tractor beam. Dax specifies that if those who built the ship had a "good day," they'd be all right, and if not... Even though we know we won't lose our heroes to something so trivial, it's somewhat effective that at least they commented on it.

I admit to pleasure at recent episodes of Battlestar Galactica where this expectation was subverted; not only is their ship falling apart, but this is partially due to the original builders having cut corners!

 

[Delta1]

How can you make a computer do something faster in a crunch if it doesn't go that fast all the time?... Anyone got a justification as to how the engineers can get a computer to do something faster when it's not supposed to be able to?

Kill all unnecessary daemons/services/TSRs, tweak the voltage, and increase the clock rate. The same things people do to make their computers go faster here on Earth.

 

[Plecostomus]

It's a multi-core/multi-processor setup in Trek, in addition to killing all other apps currently running they spread the process across more processors... there is an FTL component to TNG computers maybe they can ramp up that speed somehow too.

As for other engineering "overclocks" I too would like to see an episode dealing with the aftermath of an "overclock" going wrong. Dead crewmembers, crippled ship, possible enviromental damage (if near a planet) and of course the original situation is still unresolved. Do they dare try again, or do they wait for help? TUNE IN NEXT WEEK (cue theme music)

 

[Christopher]

I pray for the series where the captain asks the engineer to do something in a retardedly short amount of time, and the engineer just tells him to shut his stupid mouth, "I said five minutes because I meant five minutes."

As Timo said, one of the very first VGR episodes gave B'Elanna a scene very much like that, although more polite. From "State of Flux":

JANEWAY: How long will it take to set this up?
TORRES: We, er, we should be able to make an attempt by tomorrow.
JANEWAY: I want it ready by the end of the day.
TORRES: No, Captain. When I say tomorrow, I mean tomorrow. I don't exaggerate. Tomorrow is the best I can do.
JANEWAY: Understood, Lieutenant.

As for how a process is accelerated, I assume it's not a single task for a computer, but multiple operations that have to be performed by members of the crew. So they're pushing themselves to work faster: to enter the commands faster, move from one task to another faster, maybe bring in off-duty personnel so there are more people working simultaneously on different parts of a problem so you get the whole thing done faster.

 

[Myasishchev]

^Now, now, I don't see anything in there about Torres telling Janeway to shut up.

But yes, that's good. Score one for VOY.

 

[Timo]

As for how a process is accelerated, I assume it's not a single task for a computer, but multiple operations that have to be performed by members of the crew.

Or multiple operations that have to be performed by members of the computer.

It's not as if the entire giant cylinder in the starship's innards is one single processor dedicated to one single task. No doubt the computer is flexibly subsectioned into thousands if not trillions of (software) subunits that perform different tasks. Hastening a given task would then simply involve dedicating more of the partitions to that task, at the detriment of other things.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Christopher]

^Now, now, I don't see anything in there about Torres telling Janeway to shut up.

Which is why I said it was "more polite."

 

[Hofner]

One example in Real Life (TM) of having to rush a process in an emergency is Apollo 13. IIRC, it ordinarily takes a couple hours or so to power up the LEM but on Apollo 13 they had to do it in a big rush because the command module had about 15 minutes of power left. I can just see Haise or Lovell telling Houston it can't be done and to shut the f*ck up.

Robert

 

[USS Jack Riley]

^^Not only was there a time issue, but a power issue. Too much power would burn out the command module's systems. I remember that the mission control team, led by Lt. Dan of Forrest Gump fame (name escapes me) is talking with one of the NASA scientists and he asks how much power they could send through the bus without burning out the system and the response was about enough to power the coffee maker. Hence the long checklist, in a particular order, that skipped certain unnecessary procedures to bring the command module back online. Same basic principle - have to avoid certain safety protocols and turn things on in a different order, but we can do it in the shorter amount of time required.

Also, let's not forget the TOS episode The Naked Time wherein Scotty says, "You can't break the laws of physics," when order to bring the warp engines online or the star will explode and destroy the ship. Scotty develops a fix that cuts the time significantly and saves the ship, but at a cost - the ship and crew all went back in time 24 hours.

YMMV

 

[Timo]

...More like 72, IIRC. The Janus Gate novels made fun use of those three days. But in the episode, our heroes seemed to take it all in the stride, as if such time travel were nothing particularly unusual or alarming.

Which might explain not only why they do it so routinely in "Assignment: Earth" but also why some TOS episodes have overlapping stardates. They simply represent further instances of warp engine hiccups that sent our heroes to live the same days twice! And since their original selves were already performing one of the missions, they decided to undertake another one in the meantime...

Timo saloniemi

 

[Bounty]

^^Not only was there a time issue, but a power issue. Too much power would burn out the command module's systems.

You're mixing up two incidents. The LEM was powered-up in a hurry right after the oxygen tank blew up to work as a lifeboat, which is what the first poster referred to - that procedure is usually done leisurely, but now had to be done in a few minutes, and included manually copying over guidance data from the CM's main computer to the one on the LEM.

The check-list you refer to is from the return leg. The CM needed to be powered back up, but with the power cells in the SM a lost cause this needed to be done with whatever reserves were available, power which was also needed to run the ship's systems during re-entry. By powering up the CM in a very particular order it was possible to shave minuscule amounts of power off of various parts of the procedure - by powering up systems only when they were needed, or making sure not to power up systems before their supporting components were active. There wasn't quite as much time pressure on the crew for this; if anything, the pressure was on the simulator crew to puzzle together the procedure.

(This is from memory... it's been ten years since I last read Lost Moon)

 

[Forbin]

I occasionally get 2 hours of work piled on me that the person needs for a meeting in 30 minutes. Makes me wanna kill them. The retort I've never dared say is:

How many miles is your commute?
25?
Can't you get it done in 5 miles, dammit?!