BECAUSE HE COULD HAVE HAD A BAZILLION DOLLARS.
What happened to Jennifer Lien?
- Thread starter Infern0
- Start date
BECAUSE HE COULD HAVE HAD A BAZILLION DOLLARS.
And don't for get the tail.
Also, assassination.
I wonder if he felt any personal relief for being such an anon person when that happened.
I wonder if he felt any personal relief for being such an anon person when that happened.
I always hated the way they just dropped Jennifer Lien/Kes. I liked the character and the actress did a good job with weak material. Cutting her out for a pair of cat-suited boobs with the emotional range of wet cardboard was a terrible idea.
I watched for a couple of seasons then caught the odd episode after that, can't say I feel like I missed much.
I watched for a couple of seasons then caught the odd episode after that, can't say I feel like I missed much.
Who voted in that poll?
ME! I voted. I voted 23,000 times.
(I'm sorry Lynx, I had no idea what kind of dominoes of doom I was playing with..)
(I'm sorry Lynx, I had no idea what kind of dominoes of doom I was playing with..)
The list...
http://www.amiannoying.com/(S(eladdkddii5etgyrmchz1ucs))/collection.aspx?collection=57
These things are selected, not voted.
There was no pole.
http://www.amiannoying.com/(S(eladdkddii5etgyrmchz1ucs))/collection.aspx?collection=57
These things are selected, not voted.
There was no pole.
He beat GILLIAN ANDERSON.
Seriously, that is just wrong.
Seriously, that is just wrong.
You know, this thread kind of reminded me that not too long ago, I was mentally doing an inventory of who I thought the strongest actors in the series were and actually contrasting them, after a fashion, to DS9 and even to a lesser degree, to TNG.
I do tend to think evaluating series progression, Voyager tended to be a lot stronger of a series (as a whole) then TNG or DS9 and that's wholly because of the progression in writing and story telling. Sure, I'll be the first to admit, I thought the series suffered from the "little ship that could" syndrome while in premier, but re-watching the series as much as I have over the years, I've changed my tone a lot.
That being said, I do think Voyager suffers from having some of the weakest actors compared to the other four contemporary series.
DS9 had some real phenomenal actors in Avery Brooks, René Auberjonois, Colm Meaney, Armin Shimerman, Andrew Robinson and Marc Alaimo. Generally speaking, I think TPTB all but committed highway robbery with how often many of these actors appeared on the series and how much they were paid, but I don't have numbers to back that up (just a hunch).
On Voyager though, the only two outstanding actors we had were Robert Picardo (I might even argue he has been the best actor in all of Trek) and Jeri Ryan and I'd be heavily critical and say the only great actor in the series was Kate Mulgrew. I'd probably classify Robert McNeil, Roxann Dawson and Garrett Wang all into the "good" category.
I always hate, hate, hate to say this as much as Tim Russ currently does and has done to keep Trek alive, but his character just wasn't nearly as interesting as I felt it should have been. MAYBE it was a breakdown in writing, but Tuvok was always lacking.
Robert Beltran fell into that same category, his character had so much potential and just fell into a trend of nothing truly exciting happening. As a matter of fact, the episodes that tried to focus on his character ended up being some of the worst episodes in the series. His character and maybe him as a person has always been better at making other characters look good (Examples: "Life Signs" (S02E19), "Resolutions" (S02E25), "Human Error" (S07E18)).
Ethan Phillips character I think a lot of people might agree actually annoyed a lot of people but always felt so necessary. I ALWAYS disliked the character but always understood why he was here and would have loved to see them try something else for that 'spot'. I always felt like Pairs was just shy of being able to be the guy who coordinated supplies and it would have been fun to see Chell run the kitchen and keep him confined there. Heck, I almost think this would have given Robert McDucan's character a lot more room to grow.
Jennifer Lein? Well, as you can see above, there's three character I would have rather chopped or at the very least, would have rather seen dropped back to "part timers". I would have been fine with Tuvok, Chakotay or even Nelix only being on screen when they needed to be instead of making up reasons for them to be on screen, because frankly, Jennifer Lein's character was a lot more compelling then any of theirs throughout the entire series.
I do tend to think evaluating series progression, Voyager tended to be a lot stronger of a series (as a whole) then TNG or DS9 and that's wholly because of the progression in writing and story telling. Sure, I'll be the first to admit, I thought the series suffered from the "little ship that could" syndrome while in premier, but re-watching the series as much as I have over the years, I've changed my tone a lot.
That being said, I do think Voyager suffers from having some of the weakest actors compared to the other four contemporary series.
DS9 had some real phenomenal actors in Avery Brooks, René Auberjonois, Colm Meaney, Armin Shimerman, Andrew Robinson and Marc Alaimo. Generally speaking, I think TPTB all but committed highway robbery with how often many of these actors appeared on the series and how much they were paid, but I don't have numbers to back that up (just a hunch).
On Voyager though, the only two outstanding actors we had were Robert Picardo (I might even argue he has been the best actor in all of Trek) and Jeri Ryan and I'd be heavily critical and say the only great actor in the series was Kate Mulgrew. I'd probably classify Robert McNeil, Roxann Dawson and Garrett Wang all into the "good" category.
I always hate, hate, hate to say this as much as Tim Russ currently does and has done to keep Trek alive, but his character just wasn't nearly as interesting as I felt it should have been. MAYBE it was a breakdown in writing, but Tuvok was always lacking.
Robert Beltran fell into that same category, his character had so much potential and just fell into a trend of nothing truly exciting happening. As a matter of fact, the episodes that tried to focus on his character ended up being some of the worst episodes in the series. His character and maybe him as a person has always been better at making other characters look good (Examples: "Life Signs" (S02E19), "Resolutions" (S02E25), "Human Error" (S07E18)).
Ethan Phillips character I think a lot of people might agree actually annoyed a lot of people but always felt so necessary. I ALWAYS disliked the character but always understood why he was here and would have loved to see them try something else for that 'spot'. I always felt like Pairs was just shy of being able to be the guy who coordinated supplies and it would have been fun to see Chell run the kitchen and keep him confined there. Heck, I almost think this would have given Robert McDucan's character a lot more room to grow.
Jennifer Lein? Well, as you can see above, there's three character I would have rather chopped or at the very least, would have rather seen dropped back to "part timers". I would have been fine with Tuvok, Chakotay or even Nelix only being on screen when they needed to be instead of making up reasons for them to be on screen, because frankly, Jennifer Lein's character was a lot more compelling then any of theirs throughout the entire series.
I thought the character was interesting to begin with, she was something different. It was different to see a character that only lived 9 years because every other species on Trek has a longer life span than humans. It would have been interesting to see someone's whole life played out durring the run of the show.
But other than that she wasn't that unique, her short lifespan was the only unique thing about her. Pointy ears, mental powers, that's nothing new in Trek
But other than that she wasn't that unique, her short lifespan was the only unique thing about her. Pointy ears, mental powers, that's nothing new in Trek
it seems to me like everything fits fine. Jennifer lien and a few other actors had three year contracts, others had a full seven year contract. After three years her contract was not renewed, she left the show. What missing pieces are there?
and does it really matter? it was so many years ago, everyone involved has moved on. And in my opinon the show got much better season 4 on so perhaps the change was for the better.
I have heard many people say that Lien was never comfortable in front of the camera and she was not upset to go, even the other actors said that
anyway, like I said, if the actors themselves said something happened a certain way, that's what I'll believe since I wasn't there myself. If you think the actors are lying and covering up some conspiracy that's your business, either way I still have a show that I love
Well, nothing new here. I've seen this many, many times, those kind of statements. Not only in the movie business.
I can go back all the way to 1963 when Pete Best was fired from The Beatles (the reason was that the others wanted Ringo Starr as drummer because they liked him better). It was there, all the statements about "mutual agreements" and everybody's happy. Many, many years later, Pete Best revealed in his biography how sad, angry and deprssed he was for many years after being kicked out from the band.
There are many similar stories.
Not to mention that I've seen it myself too. "Don't write it or say it to anyone but we actually kicked X from the band, he's such an a**hole!" Then meeting a really angry X the next week: "Those pigs! I'm a better songwriter and guitar player than Y and he can't stand it, therefore he and the other cowards fired me!" But officially, it was all "mutual agreement" and everybody's happy.
Ever since I started to investigate the "Lien case" back in 1998, there are too many things which doesn't fit in. It's too much official gloss painting on the wall. Especially compared to cases where there has been someone who left of their own free will, just like in the "NCIS Caitlin Todd case" I've mentioned before.
As for Mulgrew, she has showed her discontent with the firing of Lien many times. Just look at the season 3 DVD extras.
Beltran has also stated that Lien should have remained in the show.
Personally I think that the show lost a lot when Kes was kicked out. I don't think that the show was better in the later seasons which is a reason that I only own the season 1-3 DVD:s.
As I said earlier, of course the actors were sad to see her go. They were a close cast. But sadness to see someone leave doesn't mean there were hard feelings about it. That is the life of an actor, she was lucky to have three years which is something that many actors don't even get.
And as I said, since I wasn't there I will go with what the actors said. If you think they're lying that's cool. Either way I still love Voyager espeically the later seasons.
and since I've just been repeating myself this is my last responce on this matter, thanks for the discussion
a few of them did, Ethan Phillips and Garrett Wang had three year contracts too I believe.
If they'd actually done something with the short lifespan, it would have been interesting.
Say they'd made her lifespan 7 years. And then aged her year after year.
You'd have a character who lived a full lifetime within the seven year series. Would have been interesting to see if Jen was up to the challenge.
However, according to some this is a horrendous idea, because how dare I suggest that aging & dying is a part of living, and something that would have repercussion on all of the characters.
I think that would be really interesting to see. Though I don't think that Lien would be up to such a challenge. With playing out her whole life I can see some possible interesting story lines, lets say she was involved in a romantic relationship, you have that character dealing with her impending death, you have her friends dealing with it, her dealing with aging while everyone else alround he remails relatively the same....lots of potential
oh and there's another thought, would you as a human persue a relationship with someone who wuld only live 9 years? would you have a child with them knowing they wouldn't live much more than that
I agree that the episodes writtern for Kes were weak. They were too focused on her being a repressed entity blossoming into new, unknown powers, namely her psychic ability. Before and After, though, was a strong episode for her.
That said, Kes' presence on the ship, due in no small part to the actress, did a lot to cement together the social life of the crew. Obviously, the Maquis and Starfleet crews melded together in a somewhat miraculous and underanalyzed manner. However, Kes brought specific characters together, whom otherwise might have never learned to trust one another: Paris, Tuvok and Neelix. Moreover, the Doctor was largely prodded by Kes to explore his existence beyond being a computer program. It's impossible to see the Doctor's development without her, and no other character could have credibly pushed the Doctor in the way Kes did (certainly not Seven of Nine).
Kes' influence was the spark for a lot of the development that did occur on the show.
I don't know if I agree with that. The Doctor had a desire to expand himself, I think he would have either way.
And how did Kes bring Paris, Tuvok, and Neelix together?
oh yes, I saw those scenes with her that were on the dvd and I'm glad she decided to pull out. I haven't seen her in anything else so I don't know if she's better suited to movies, but voyager was definately not the right fit for herBut I'm glad they didn't go with Genevieve Bujold.
I whole-heartedly second this.
We'll never know how good she might have ben in the role. After all watching those scenes on the DVD in the back of our minds is how it compares to Kate Mulgrew.
And the answer would be different depending on the character.
My aunt married a man who'd had a glioblastoma resected from his brain. They had 2 kids. The cancer recurred when the youngest was 3 months old.
I always thought that was incredibly brave--to fall in love with & marry someone who you knew would make you a young widow.
Then I found myself in the same position when I met my sweetie. And I understood why she'd done it.
You learn a great deal about living from folks who have a keen sense of their own mortality.
I made the same choice she did--minus the children.
I guess the time you have with them is worth it, but damn I can't imagine going into a relationship knowing that. I'm sorry about your husband Teya
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