What examples of multiple species from one world are there?

[rfmcdpei]

Also, does the Rigel system as a whole count?

Was gonna mention exactly that. How many distinct species are attributed to the system nowadays, besides the canonical "A bit like Vulcans" and "Humans with bad teeth"? How many are explicitly native?

The Chelon reptilians seem to be native. The Vulcanoid Rigellians are also canon, in the person of Safranski, presumably another offshoot culture from Vulcan's sunering period, as are the Kaylar. The AU novella "A Less Perfect Union" seems to set a limit: "[T]he Earth government support[ed] the inhabitants of Rigel IV in dominating the Chelon and later they supported the Kaylar in actions against the other two dominant species after peace talks emerged between them as well as the two races getting aggressive over Earth dominating their politics."

Regarding the Trill, are the hosts native, or merely the first humanoid species to land on the planet and get enslaved by the symbionts...?

The Mangels/Martin novella set on Trill implies that the two species have a history going back to prehistory, depicting the first Trill joining to involve a Stone Age Trill humanoid. At the very least, if he was non-native he had no idea how he got there.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Also, does the Rigel system as a whole count?

Was gonna mention exactly that. How many distinct species are attributed to the system nowadays, besides the canonical "A bit like Vulcans" and "Humans with bad teeth"? How many are explicitly native?

Native species? At least four, maybe five, maybe six. Although given the system's youth and possibly artificial nature, I wonder if any are truly native?

Whether the "Bad Teeth Rigelians" (Kaylar, I assume?) are native to the same Rigel as the others is up for debate. A Less Perfect Union suggested they were, at least, but other sources place them at "true" Rigel. Either one seems feasible.

Confirmed as originating at Beta Rigel, the heavily populated Federation system in range of NX-01, we have:

The Vulcanoid Rigelians of canon. They look like Humans, apparently, so Mr. Hengist was apparently of that race (neatly rolling his type of Rigelian and the Vulcanoid species into one). Safranski, too. They're either from IV or V but colonized the other anyway (I think Catalyst of Sorrows has them originating on IV and some migrated to V for political reasons). And they're established on II, I think. A character in Wildfire, and another elsewhere, is said to actually look Vulcan - whether this is another race or a variant of the first one, I don't know. Perhaps we can assume that these Rigellians are descendants of the Arretians, and are a blend of the two Arretian species, with some more Vulcanoid than others externally? The case of Spock seems to hint that Vulcanoid physiology is dominant over base Humanoid.

The yellow, tattooed Rigelians appearing in Enterprise. The Stargazer books and some of the SCE books feature a silver-skinned, red-eyed race of Rigelians, which I choose to picture as a racial variant of the yellow ones (rather than inventing yet another species). Their homeworld is V, I believe (with populations on other worlds, naturally, like II and IV, and with a large population of Vulcanoid Rigelians established on V in turn).

The Chelons, from Rigel III.

An amphibian race (possibly the speckled race seen on Rigel X in Broken Bow), mentioned in Destiny and other places. Maybe from VIII? Apparently less prominent than the Vulcanoids or Tatoo'n'braids races.

 

[Christopher]

^Where in SCE were Mike Friedman's silver-skinned Rigellians mentioned?

And yes, the ENT Rigelians, the ones with the green-and-black facial markings, are reportedly from Rigel V, according to Memory Alpha.

The canonical Rigellians mentioned in "Journey to Babel" were only said to have blood chemistry similar to that of Vulcans; I've always found it a little odd that people jumped to the conclusion that they were actually Vulcanoid. But they're portrayed inconsistently. Catalyst of Sorrows (which established that they were native to Rigel IV and had a expatriate population on V) says they have a Vulcanoid internal anatomy but look indistinguishable from human (presumably on the assumption that Hengist from "Wolf in the Fold" was a native); but other books say they look just like Vulcans. Cold Equations recently mentioned that Safranski looked like a Vulcan, which I don't recall having previously been established.

As for the Kalar or Kaylar, an IDW comic has portrayed them as being from the same system as the ENT Rigelians. Star Charts claims they're from the "real" Rigel, Beta Orionis, presumably under the assumption that the encounter before "The Cage" was a first contact, but there's no actual evidence of that in the episode. Early Voyages says that Rigel VII was protectionist against alien contacts up until the 2250s, so it could be Beta Rigel VII. And that makes more sense to me, since they were heading to the Vega Colony for medical treatment and repairs after the incident. Vega is nearly 900 light-years from Beta Orionis, but only about 100 ly from Tau-3 Eridani, the star that this map site identifies as "Beta Rigel" (since it's the closest real star in position and type to the conjectual Beta Rigel in Star Charts).

Then again, there are other Federation worlds far closer to Tau-3 Eri than Vega is -- including Earth -- but that can't be helped.

Where was that amphibian race mentioned in Destiny? I've searched my copies of the manuscript files (which I still have from when I needed them to write Greater Than the Sum), but there's nothing of the sort in the drafts I have. Although something could've been added in revisions.

But if you're referring to the yellow-skinned, speckled "Broken Bow" aliens with no noses, I've identified them in A Choice of Futures with the Xarantine, a race mentioned but not seen in other ENT episodes.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

^Where in SCE were Mike Friedman's silver-skinned Rigellians mentioned?

Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, I'm sure Folanir Pzial of Lovell was described as silver-skinned and red-eyed. I may be wrong here.

Where was that amphibian race mentioned in Destiny? I've searched my copies of the manuscript files (which I still have from when I needed them to write Greater Than the Sum), but there's nothing of the sort in the drafts I have. Although something could've been added in revisions.

One of the admirals talking with Seven in Mere Mortals (I think) is amphibious and Rigelian, but his appearance isn't described in any depth. Admiral Miltakka.

But if you're referring to the yellow-skinned, speckled "Broken Bow" aliens with no noses, I've identified them in A Choice of Futures with the Xarantine, a race mentioned but not seen in other ENT episodes.

Cool, it's great to get confirmation on what the Xarantine look like. Treat them well; they've got about 220 years...

 

[Christopher]

Where was that amphibian race mentioned in Destiny? I've searched my copies of the manuscript files (which I still have from when I needed them to write Greater Than the Sum), but there's nothing of the sort in the drafts I have. Although something could've been added in revisions.

One of the admirals talking with Seven in Mere Mortals (I think) is amphibious and Rigelian, but his appearance isn't described in any depth. Admiral Miltakka.

Hmm, that scene isn't in the draft I have, but I found it on Google Books. (I have the physical book on my shelf, but I find it's quicker to do a text search with Google Books.) It describes Captain Miltakka as "amphiboid." Now, the Vanguard writers' bible, also by Dave Mack, describes Chelons as amphibious. Yes, they look like turtles and turtles are reptiles, but they are aliens, after all, so that resemblance can be deceptive. So I'd assume that Miltakka is supposed to be a Chelon.

EDIT: Oh, and I searched for references to Ensign Pzial, and while he was mentioned as having bright red eyes, there's no mention of silver skin that I can find.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Where was that amphibian race mentioned in Destiny? I've searched my copies of the manuscript files (which I still have from when I needed them to write Greater Than the Sum), but there's nothing of the sort in the drafts I have. Although something could've been added in revisions.

One of the admirals talking with Seven in Mere Mortals (I think) is amphibious and Rigelian, but his appearance isn't described in any depth. Admiral Miltakka.

Hmm, that scene isn't in the draft I have, but I found it on Google Books. (I have the physical book on my shelf, but I find it's quicker to do a text search with Google Books.) It describes Captain Miltakka as "amphiboid." Now, the Vanguard writers' bible, also by Dave Mack, describes Chelons as amphibious. Yes, they look like turtles and turtles are reptiles, but they are aliens, after all, so that resemblance can be deceptive. So I'd assume that Miltakka is supposed to be a Chelon.

Ah, okay. Yes, now I think of it, I do recall Chelons being described as amphibian elsewhere. And I suppose Miltakkka sounds like a Chelon name: Rinsit, Kekil, Simmerith, Jetanien, Miltakka...

Okay then, scrap the amphibians as a separate race. They're Chelons.

That leaves us with Chelons, Tatooed Enterprise Rigelians (possibly with silver skinned Rigelians included), Vulcan-looking Vulcanoids and Human-looking Vulcanoids (which may be the same race). And Kaylar, apparently.

 

[rfmcdpei]

The canonical Rigellians mentioned in "Journey to Babel" were only said to have blood chemistry similar to that of Vulcans; I've always found it a little odd that people jumped to the conclusion that they were actually Vulcanoid. But they're portrayed inconsistently. Catalyst of Sorrows (which established that they were native to Rigel IV and had a expatriate population on V) says they have a Vulcanoid internal anatomy but look indistinguishable from human (presumably on the assumption that Hengist from "Wolf in the Fold" was a native); but other books say they look just like Vulcans. Cold Equations recently mentioned that Safranski looked like a Vulcan, which I don't recall having previously been established.

Going by this transcript of "Journey to Babel", Spock's line is "Rigelian physiology is very similar to Vulcan". It's not just a matter of blood chemistry, but the entire Rigelian organism is similar to the Vulcan. Especially since there were sufficient differences between recently-separated Romulans and Vulcans to complicate Crusher's treatment of a Romulan downed on Galorndon Core a century later, it's not unreasonable to speculate that Rigelians are as roughly closely related to Vulcans as Romulans.

When did this divergence take place? It may be that the Rigelians descend from an Arretian-era population. Looking at Memory Beta's page, it seems that the consensus has been to write the Rigelians as a Vulcanoid population that emigrated from 40 Eridani at roughly the same time as the Rigelians. At least one source suggests that the Vulcanoid emigrants settled on the homeworld of the Kaylars, reducing them to a marginalized population on the fringes of the new Rigelian civilization.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Going by this transcript of "Journey to Babel", Spock's line is "Rigelian physiology is very similar to Vulcan". It's not just a matter of blood chemistry, but the entire Rigelian organism is similar to the Vulcan.

In DS9, Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges, Tuvan's Syndrome was said to mostly affect Vulcans, Romulans and Rigelians, so apparently their neurology is essentially Vulcanoid too. So it seems the writers of that episode interpreted the line in JtB as Rigelians (this race of them, anyway) being similar to Vulcans in more than just blood composition.

As for where these Rigelians truly came from, I like to assume Arret is the answer - and the "looks-Human" VS "looks-Vulcan" issue can perhaps be explained as different groups descended from the same biracial population, given that Arretians have been confirmed as two species, one Human-like, one Vulcan-like. But I guess colonists from Vulcan could have settled there too - Catalyst of Sorrows does mention a period of colonization post-Sundering, when Vulcans established themselves on a string of planets along the later Neutral Zone (e.g. Sliwon). So offshoot populations across the Beta Quadrant besides Romulans apparently exist.

Face it, Spock, it's hopeless. The genie's out of the bottle

 

[rfmcdpei]

I like to assume Arret is the answer - and the "looks-Human" VS "looks-Vulcan" issue can perhaps be explained as different groups descended from the same biracial population, given that Arretians have been confirmed as two species, one Human-like, one Vulcan-like.

For that matter, maybe the Vulcanoid migrants from 40 Eridani met with the Vulcanoids from Rigel and got along famously. A half-million years of divergence probably wouldn't create two reproductively incompatible species.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I like to assume Arret is the answer - and the "looks-Human" VS "looks-Vulcan" issue can perhaps be explained as different groups descended from the same biracial population, given that Arretians have been confirmed as two species, one Human-like, one Vulcan-like.

For that matter, maybe the Vulcanoid migrants from 40 Eridani met with the Vulcanoids from Rigel and got along famously. A half-million years of divergence probably wouldn't create two reproductively incompatible species.

Yes. If they were more-or-less culturally compatible too, maybe the Rigelian Vulcanoids would even welcome the, er, Minsharan Vulcanoids as a means of boosting their numbers and competing against the tattooed guys and the Chelons (I wonder what sort of racial feuding went on before the establishment of the United Rigel Colonies?)

And of course the RPGs used to suggest Orions were native to Rigel; the modern novel continuity rejects that, but there's still probably a large Orion population (it's a commercially important major trading system near the Orion homeworld; they've probably had tendrils in there for centuries). Plus the human colonists that come with the Federation...Rigel is an interesting place.

Why, oh why, haven't we yet had a series set there?

 

[rfmcdpei]

Short version: There's probably a very interesting story to be told about the great diaspora from Vulcan following Surak and the development of interstellar flight in the 40 Eridani system.

The existence of multiple Vulcanoid populations dating from the time of Surak outside of the Vulcan and Romulan spheres of influence makes the whole question of Vulcan-Romulan reunification more complex. At the very least, the Rigelians are close to the Federation, but they've remained sufficiently distinct to be counted as a population distinct from both the Romulans and the Vulcans. Maybe talk of reunification isn't sop much about setting up a Vulcanoid state but rather about ending the divisive legacies of the planetary war that produced the diaspora.

 

[Christopher]

Folks, this is getting dangerously close to story-idea territory. Probably best to curb speculation about where the Vulcanoid Rigellians came from.

As it happens -- and I should've clarified this already -- I've done a fair amount of research and thinking on the inhabitants of the Rigel system as background for Rise of the Federation. As it happens, Nasat's thinking on the overall system comes pretty close to what I'd arrived at. I count three main native races, one each from Rigel III (Chelons), IV (Vulcanoids), and V (beaded Rigelians from ENT season 4). Rigel II has colonies from both IV and V, going by Catalyst of Sorrows. As for the Kaylar... well, I may get around to explaining that in a book.

Going by this transcript of "Journey to Babel", Spock's line is "Rigelian physiology is very similar to Vulcan". It's not just a matter of blood chemistry, but the entire Rigelian organism is similar to the Vulcan. Especially since there were sufficient differences between recently-separated Romulans and Vulcans to complicate Crusher's treatment of a Romulan downed on Galorndon Core a century later, it's not unreasonable to speculate that Rigelians are as roughly closely related to Vulcans as Romulans.

Well, I'll grant that they said "physiology," but I don't agree with the second point. Two populations can have very similar physiology in one respect yet very different in another. For instance, two people with the same kind of colorblindness may have incompatible blood types, or two people with the same immunity to a given disease may have different degrees of lactose tolerance. It depends on what physiological factors are medically relevant in a given context.

When did this divergence take place? It may be that the Rigelians descend from an Arretian-era population.

I already pretty much established, or at least strongly suggested, in Watching the Clock that the Arretians were actually two species coexisting as a single civilization -- one (most likely Sargon's race) that was the ancestor of many humanoid aliens (such as, perhaps, Bajorans, Betazoids, Deltans, Argelians, etc.), and one (most likely Henoch's race) that was the ancestor of Vulcanoid species (Vulcans, Romulans, Rigellians, perhaps Halanans, maybe even Ocampa).

Looking at Memory Beta's page, it seems that the consensus has been to write the Rigelians as a Vulcanoid population that emigrated from 40 Eridani at roughly the same time as the Rigelians.

That "consensus" comes mainly from two things, an RPG module and the novel Mind Meld. RPG versions of Trek history are rarely followed by the novel continuity, and Mind Meld's portrayal of Rigel V isn't consistent with what ENT and Catalyst of Sorrows established. So I'm not going with that interpretation.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Folks, this is getting dangerously close to story-idea territory. Probably best to curb speculation about where the Vulcanoid Rigellians came from.

As it happens -- and I should've clarified this already -- I've done a fair amount of research and thinking on the inhabitants of the Rigel system as background for Rise of the Federation.

Yes, I see what you mean; sorry, we probably got a little carried away there. I'll stop speculating now.

As someone who's been hoping for a "definitive Novel 'Verse Rigel" for some time, I'm pleased to hear you'll be featuring the system in Rise of the Federation. I'm ever more excited for this one.

 

[rfmcdpei]

Folks, this is getting dangerously close to story-idea territory. Probably best to curb speculation about where the Vulcanoid Rigellians came from.

As it happens -- and I should've clarified this already -- I've done a fair amount of research and thinking on the inhabitants of the Rigel system as background for Rise of the Federation.

Yes, I see what you mean; sorry, we probably got a little carried away there. I'll stop speculating now.

As someone who's been hoping for a "definitive Novel 'Verse Rigel" for some time, I'm pleased to hear you'll be featuring the system in Rise of the Federation. I'm ever more excited for this one.

I look forward to reading this as well. June?

 

[Timo]

Regarding Rigel, and the odd dialogue on the star system of that name in "Broken Bow"... What does the novelverse say about Beta Rigel or its relationship to the more familiar Rigel in the Orion constellation, exactly?

In the Carey novelization of "Broken Bow", Archer associates the word "Rigel" with the blue giant in the Orion constellation, hundreds of lightyears from Earth, despite T'Pol explicitly saying it's a star system just fifteen lightyears away from their current position. There's no room for "Beta Rigel" there, not unless we assume Archer is a moron and has no idea where his ship currently sails, and never grasps the fact that his team hasn't visited the constellation Orion star system. And even then there'd be a little bit of an oddity between warp 4.4 being only thirty million kilometers per second, their destination being just 80 hours away, and the ship still being within 15 ly of the "real" Rigel...

Do other books tackle the odd "Broken Bow" dialogue differently, to plausibly explain why our human heroes seemingly don't recognize the name Rigel at all?

Just asking - but this ought to have some impact on which of the Rigelian species should get assigned to Beta Rigel and which ones to the other Rigels out there.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Therin of Andor]

^Where in SCE were Mike Friedman's silver-skinned Rigellians mentioned?

A silver-scaled Rigellian captain, Alonis Cobaryn, was in "Starfleet: Year One", and I once wrote to MJF asking if he'd intended this species to be a Chelonian-type Rigellian, ie. as created for ST:TMP (where the green sabre-toothed turtle aliens had made silver metal armored shells because they'd evolved out of their ancestors' ones). But he said, no, it was a new, original Rigellian. The species was also in "Stargazer: Oblivion".

 

[Therin of Andor]

Regarding Rigel, and the odd dialogue on the star system of that name in "Broken Bow"... What does the novelverse say about Beta Rigel or its relationship to the more familiar Rigel in the Orion constellation, exactly?

There was a typo in "Star Trek Star Charts" that was intended to clarify the Rigel of ENT and the distant Rigel of "The Cage":

The Rigel Colonies' star, Beta Rigel, as depicted in ENT, was considered by that book to be different to "true" Rigel (ie. Beta Orionis A). The seventh planet of Beta Orionis A is home to the Kaylar.

 

[Christopher]

^Where in SCE were Mike Friedman's silver-skinned Rigellians mentioned?

A silver-scaled Rigellian captain, Alonis Cobaryn, was in "Starfleet: Year One", and I once wrote to MJF asking if he'd intended this species to be a Chelonian-type Rigellian, ie. as created for ST:TMP (where the green sabre-toothed turtle aliens had made silver metal armored shells because they'd evolved out of their ancestors' ones). But he said, no, it was a new, original Rigellian. The species was also in "Stargazer: Oblivion".

That's not what I asked. I said "Where in SCE" were they mentioned?