What episode is this?

[Captain Robert April]

PLEASE tell me you are not serious, that a Trek novelist wrote that a MUGATO was a crewmember of a starfleet vessel... have these people no shame?

We're talking about Peter David here. "Shame" is a pretty remote possibility.

Almost as bad as whichever early Trek novelist had a horta crewmember... wait, not nearly as bad as that actually, but still bad.

At least the Horta has the advantage of actually being a member of an established sentient race.

I think the Mugato idea is the result of Petey watching a little too much "George of the Jungle"...

 

[cooleddie74]

Peter David made a mugatu a member of a Starfleet crew in one of his novels?!



Does he even realize that mugatus are primitive, savage ape creatures without rational sentience?

 

[Kryton]

Well, so are [insert political party name], but THEY still get jobs!

Heh...generic humor. Funny.

 

[cooleddie74]

Okay. I'm feeling generous.

I'll give you that one.

 

[The Old Mixer]

That's what turned me off to Trek novels and comics years ago...they wind up doing anything and everything, showing no restraint and pushing things a little too far into the realm of fantasy. Having a sentient, talking Mugato in a Starfleet uniform is like having a sentient, talking panda bear in a Starfleet uniform. And "The Devil in the Dark" established that the Horta could only live in an oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere for short periods...not to mention that the ship is clearly designed for humanoids who stand upright and use appendages to manipulate controls.

 

[cooleddie74]

Hence, one of the many reasons only a tiny select few novels in TREK history have ever been considered even quasi-canon.

 

[kissthestar]

Q: Why do mugatu have horns?

A: Um, because their bells don't work?

Q: No, it's to keep their sombreros in place.

Kirk: Oh, what's the point?

 

[cooleddie74]

EL MUGATU!

Live at the Tijuana Public Colosseum this Sabado Noche!

 

[Therin of Andor]

Does he even realize that mugatus are primitive, savage ape creatures without rational sentience?

Yes, and that's the whole point of Janos's final appearance. "New Frontier: Stone and Anvil" explains all. The book concerns a scientist attempting to emulate a 24th century equivalent to "The Island of Doctor Moreau".

 

[Therin of Andor]

"The Devil in the Dark" established that the Horta could only live in an oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere for short periods...

TMP had the Zaranites, who were fitted with fluorine gas tanks on their backs. TNG featured the Benzites, whose breathing had to be supplemented with a little gas emitter fitted to their chests.

not to mention that the ship is clearly designed for humanoids who stand upright and use appendages to manipulate controls.

And the ship in TNG used to be flown by a blind human!

Diane Duane's Naraht the horta was a specialist, and was not expected to work every control on a Starfleet vessel. He was fitted with a voder, to convert his speech, and another novel mentioned the hortas' use of robotic arms to do other tasks. Naraht was a very handy crewmember to have on landing parties - he was once dispatched, meteor style, to a planet, when unauthorized beaming was impossible.

 

[gastrof]

But what about the fact they can't live for long in our atmosphere? I don't seem to recall anything being said about him wearing any kind of environment suit.

Oh...

And don't forget the TNG novel about the Mirror universe, where an Enterprise-D crewman was a dolphin, who moved about the ship with artificial limbs, and also had a voder.

 

[Therin of Andor]

But what about the fact they can't live for long in our atmosphere?

What was the exact quote in TOS?

Memory Alpha mentions that "Although Hortas did not evolve in an oxygen environment, they seem able to exist in it for extended periods of time."

Memory Beta, for non canonical info, says: "The Hortas' preferred habitat was amongst the rock of a planet, though they could survive in a typical atmosphere they found it disconcertingly empty to the touch."

 

[Timewalker]

I've always liked the character of Naraht -- and not because one of the physical descriptions of him was that he "resembled a pan pizza." I thought it just seemed so neat to have a Horta crewmember -- an eager young Ensign who was smart, anxious to please, and delightfully curious about the universe. And Ael's reaction to him in the Diane Duane novels -- "Ensign Rock" -- that was cute.

One of my fanfics had one of Naraht's siblings attending Starfleet Academy, where she got into trouble for snacking on an Admiral's ornamental rock garden...

 

[pookha]

That's what turned me off to Trek novels and comics years ago...they wind up doing anything and everything, showing no restraint and pushing things a little too far into the realm of fantasy. Having a sentient, talking Mugato in a Starfleet uniform is like having a sentient, talking panda bear in a Starfleet uniform. And "The Devil in the Dark" established that the Horta could only live in an oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere for short periods...not to mention that the ship is clearly designed for humanoids who stand upright and use appendages to manipulate controls.

look if a hugo winning novel can have dolphins flying and commanding a starship i dont see why a mugato cant be uplifted and and a horta adapted to starship life.

plus we know from tng there are dolphins aboard picards enterprise.

 

[Lieut. Arex]

What was the exact quote in TOS?

Don't have it exactly, but McCoy says something like "Silicon-based life's impossible, especially in an oxygen atmosphere."

But what about the fact they can't live for long in our atmosphere? I don't seem to recall anything being said about him wearing any kind of environment suit.

The Horta's external shell is similar to fibrous asbestos, per Spock. I'd say that barring a breach, they could live in an oxygen atmosphere for a respectable amount of time without difficulty. It may be that is wasn't necessarily the phaser fire that hurt the Mother Horta so much but the direct exposure of her unprotected internal tissues to the oxygen-rich atmosphere in the mining tunnels. It was oxidizing her flesh, burning and poisoning her.

 

[Kryton]

Fortunately for that Starfleet-serving Horta, that ship's surgeon was named "Dr. Bricklayer".





(Almost went with Dr. Mason, but it's not as outright absurd. )

 

[cooleddie74]

Mugatus I can buy in a stretch and pinch. But a Horta? Maybe as a mining consultant or geological engineer...but on a starship as an officer? Wouldn't its inborn abilities to sear and melt through almost any known substance prove a danger to structural stability?

 

[Keith1701]

^ I agree with that recomendation. They aren't a 2 parter or anything, but it'll do you good to watch Errand of Mercy prior to A Private Little War.

You are correct, the episode was "A Private Little War".

 

[Gepard]

The Horta's external shell is similar to fibrous asbestos, per Spock. I'd say that barring a breach, they could live in an oxygen atmosphere for a respectable amount of time without difficulty. It may be that is wasn't necessarily the phaser fire that hurt the Mother Horta so much but the direct exposure of her unprotected internal tissues to the oxygen-rich atmosphere in the mining tunnels. It was oxidizing her flesh, burning and poisoning her.

Wow. That not only makes a great deal of sense in regards to how a phaser blast could hurt a rock so much, but also how just sticking some concrete in the hole made everything better. Neat.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Wouldn't its inborn abilities to sear and melt through almost any known substance prove a danger to structural stability?

We see in "The Devil in the Dark" that the horta can control her acidic secretions cleverly enough to carve "NO KILL I" in the rock floor. Naraht had to stay on best behaviour while on the Enterprise.

There was a DS9 novel called "Devil in the Sky", in which some horta eggs hatch while being stored on the space station and - without a mother horta to teach them and house train them - one hatchling sears his way right through the bulkheads.