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What Does It Mean To Kill Someone "In Cold Blood"?

Yeah, I'd agree with Christopher. I imagine it came about during days of the old west where many killings took place, with many criminals being ruthless, that one kill was simply just another and without remorse.

Actually that's a myth invented by Westerns. In reality, the homicide rate in an "Old West" town or city was relatively low, only a handful per year. But "cold-blooded," ruthless killers are a staple of adventure fiction of all types, so they were abundant in the Western movies and TV shows that created our cultural myth of the "Old West."

Hmmm, now that makes me wonder if the documentary I saw wasn't all that truthful. It took a look at True Grit and compared to how it may have been back then and how accurate the movie was, and they did say that they were violent times even more-so than the movie, and that Pinkerton men were often criminals trying to reform themselves. On the other hand, it may have been made as a way to promote the movie. I'll trust your opinion though.
 
I thought the murder rate in the Old West was very low until I looked it up to get some numbers. It was actually very high, at least 97 per 100,000 per year, which is higher than DC or Baltimore. I hadn't known that.

http://cjrc.osu.edu/researchprojects/hvd/hom%20rates%20west.html

Michael Bellesiles wanted to portray the Old West murder rate as low, to argue that it was a myth that American's always had lots of guns, and gun advocates would like to seperate gun ownership from the violence in Westerns. So the idea that the West was violent was portrayed as a myth, but it seems the revision was even more of a myth.
 
^Ah, okay. Thanks for clearing that up.

Still, the violence rate wasn't as high as Western movies and TV shows would have it. And there are plenty of myths about violence in Westerns, like the fast-draw duels which are a staple of the genre but would've been pretty much impossible in real life due to the low accuracy of firearms at the time.
 
I think one of the greatest myths of the old west is the "fair gunfight". The handful we know about like the "OK Corral" have become legends.

But from what I've read and seen on numerous history channel episodes most so called "gunfights" were simply one guy pulling a gun and shooting down another guy with the victim never having a chance.

In short, more like a modern drive by shooting.
 
I've always seen various numbers. It was pointed out that the highest number of murders in a single year in Tombstone was four and that was the O.K. Corral. Even based on those numbers, it's clear that the homicide rate was only high in proportion to the population. It still wasn't a routine occurrence.
 
Well, in truth the "modern western style" gunfights where one guy beats the other guy to the draw, fires one shot and the other guy dies would be pretty much only possible with modern revolvers and modern ammunition.

The 19th century revolvers with their large caliber, low velocity bullets had a tendency to tumble and leave large, ragged looking wounds.

In television westerns, most of the gunshot wounds look like thru and thrus.
 
^Oh, certainly. And in Mission: Impossible, when the team used fake blood, it was always a bright red that looked more like paint or food coloring than blood, so as not to be too disturbing to the censors.
 
This thread's a rather interesting discussion. I've also heard that the reason you see people sustaining many shots before keeling over in westerns is not because they were tougher, but because bullets were somewhat weaker. But then again, this is probably also another myth. I guess it's hard to judge things like this when no records were kept in those days.
 
I've also heard that the reason you see people sustaining many shots before keeling over in westerns is not because they were tougher, but because bullets were somewhat weaker.

Actually, that's more realistic. The modern action scenes where people go flying back through the air after being struck by a bullet are the ridiculous ones. In reality you can often take a lot of shots before going down (depending on where you're shot, obviously), and you're far more likely to just slump over than anything else.
 
^Right. Dying instantly is a conceit of fiction to make death look cleaner. In reality, the vast majority of bullet wounds or stab wounds can be survived if you get medical care before bleeding out, unless they're in a vital area. Heck, some people even survive being shot in the head, albeit with some brain damage. (Though I'm told that a really big sniper round has so much kinetic energy that even getting grazed by it will induce sufficient hydraulic shock in the bloodstream to rupture the heart. I'm not sure how accurate that is, though.)

In the Old West, I'd imagine the majority of shooting-related deaths were actually due to infection after the fact.

And you're not just likely to slump over, you're guaranteed to -- either that or lose muscular control and collapse due to the hydraulic shock of impact or the pain. A bullet just doesn't have enough mass to push someone back any significant distance. By Newton's Third Law, the action and reaction are the same, so the force hitting the victim would be equal to the recoil force experienced by the person holding the gun. If the victim were thrown back a dozen feet through the nearest plate glass window, then the shooter would be as well. True, a powerful shotgun blast can knock someone over, and can knock the shooter over if they don't brace themselves first, but that's just knocking someone down, not sending them flying.

In earlier Westerns and action movies, this was shown realistically: actors pretending to be shot would convulse in pain or shock and then fall down. But later movies started to exaggerate things more and more, and stunt performers and special effects artists wanted to show off more, so falling down/backward got inflated into flying backward.
 
Yeah, that's what I thought. Thanks for confirming it :) I did watch some early John Wayne westerns and did observe that things were not as exaggerated as they were later on during the peak of westerns. Also good point on the infection, Christopher, considering medical care wasn't always easily available and very much "Fringe". I'm sure many have shrugged wounds off only to later suffer for not having it taken care of. And likely dying instantly ties into them not wanting to show blood.

Of course, it was always more exciting in terms of theatrics to see guys go flying up and over railings when being shot at. Come to think of it, Westerns must have been where stuntmen started their craft. One thing for sure is that it was very physical.
 
^Yeah, but I think it was originally just falling over railings, or crashing through them. Actually having bullets throw people backward through the air came along later.

Although the technique of yanking someone backward with a hidden wire to simulate being knocked backward by a weapon was in use as early as 1966, since it was used in Star Trek: "The Man Trap" for a shot where Alfred Ryder's character was stunned by a phaser. He wasn't sent flying through the air, but he was jerked backward as though knocked over with some force (which is odd, since he was hit by an energy beam rather than a physical projectile).
 
I'm reminded of a "The Far Side" cartoon.

A sheriff is giving orders to his deputies about an apparent upcoming gunfight points to a second floor railing and tells one of the men

"Johnson, you get up there! And if you get hit, for gods sake just don't lay down and die! Throw yourself screaming over the rail!"
 
This thread's a rather interesting discussion. I've also heard that the reason you see people sustaining many shots before keeling over in westerns is not because they were tougher, but because bullets were somewhat weaker. But then again, this is probably also another myth. I guess it's hard to judge things like this when no records were kept in those days.

There are good records, especially from the army. The propellant in those days, black powder, was much less powerful than modern smokeless powders. They did, however, use heavier bullets which made up somewhat for the reduced velocity. Plus the bullets were round-nosed soft lead, not so great for accuracy and velocity but good for dumping a load of kinetic energy into the target quickly. You couldn't "absorb" more hits back then than you can today. The US Army chose .45 for its handgun caliber because it was better at stopping a horse, while the Navy, just interested in shooting people, got by with .36 caliber. The more popular civilian .44-40 round was close to the army .45 in performance, which gives an idea of typical firepower in the Old West.

^Right. Dying instantly is a conceit of fiction to make death look cleaner. In reality, the vast majority of bullet wounds or stab wounds can be survived if you get medical care before bleeding out, unless they're in a vital area. Heck, some people even survive being shot in the head, albeit with some brain damage.

Handgun-caliber wounds, yes. Centerfire rifle calibers are a higher level of magnitude, they will cause massive tissue damage with much more significant hemorrhage and shock. A head wound from a round like that is almost always fatal, the world had a shocking exposure to this in 1963. In WW1 when high-powered battle rifle ammunition had become commonplace, army surgeons began to treat a lot of "shrapnel" wounds caused by bone fragments and teeth exploding out of nearby soldiers.

But there are plenty of places where even a small-caliber shot can kill; many, many people have been killed in their tracks with the .22 LR cartridge, which casing and all is not much bigger than a cold pill capsule.

(Though I'm told that a really big sniper round has so much kinetic energy that even getting grazed by it will induce sufficient hydraulic shock in the bloodstream to rupture the heart. I'm not sure how accurate that is, though.)

I've also heard that a shot to the heart can "liquefy" the brain by hydrostatic shock traveling through the vascular system. I don't know about that, but I can believe it causing instant unconsciousness. After Gary Gilmore was executed by firing squad in 1977, less than half of his shredded heart could be found by the ME. That sudden shock and drop in blood pressure would knock you out pretty fast, I'd think.

In the Old West, I'd imagine the majority of shooting-related deaths were actually due to infection after the fact.

There were plenty of deaths from the bullet wounds themselves, but infection was definitely a major concern, which is why gunshot wounds to the extremities were often treated by amputation.

By Newton's Third Law, the action and reaction are the same, so the force hitting the victim would be equal to the recoil force experienced by the person holding the gun. If the victim were thrown back a dozen feet through the nearest plate glass window, then the shooter would be as well. True, a powerful shotgun blast can knock someone over, and can knock the shooter over if they don't brace themselves first, but that's just knocking someone down, not sending them flying.

In earlier Westerns and action movies, this was shown realistically: actors pretending to be shot would convulse in pain or shock and then fall down. But later movies started to exaggerate things more and more, and stunt performers and special effects artists wanted to show off more, so falling down/backward got inflated into flying backward.

Yes, exactly. People often fall down when shot; this phenomenon has been studied but the reasons are not clearly understood. It may be more mental than physiological but it's certainly not just plain physics, and being flung through the air is just fantasy.

Justin
 
There are good records, especially from the army. The propellant in those days, black powder, was much less powerful than modern smokeless powders. They did, however, use heavier bullets which made up somewhat for the reduced velocity. Plus the bullets were round-nosed soft lead, not so great for accuracy and velocity but good for dumping a load of kinetic energy into the target quickly. You couldn't "absorb" more hits back then than you can today. The US Army chose .45 for its handgun caliber because it was better at stopping a horse, while the Navy, just interested in shooting people, got by with .36 caliber. The more popular civilian .44-40 round was close to the army .45 in performance, which gives an idea of typical firepower in the Old West.

Wow, I think I've learned more about guns and firepower here than I've had anywhere else, haha. Thanks.

Btw, your avatar's also quite appropriate :)
 
Yeah, the one thing that surprises me is that our military uses much smaller caliber bullets than back in the day. I didn't consider that the firearms themselves pack a greater punch, so that would explain it to a degree.
 
A modern assault rifle imparts roughly the same kinetic energy as a Civil War rifle, but does it with a much lighter bullet that travels much faster (KE=1/2mv^2). Since recoil is mass*velocity, the faster bullet delivers the kinetic energy with less recoil (and less momentum to transfer on impact). The 7mm and 30 caliber battle rifles (WW-I, WW-II, etc) delivered much more energy.

For calculation, bullet weights are given in grains (the weight of a grain of barley, the fundamental unit of all English weight measuring systems and dating back to the Bronze Age). There are 7,000 grains to a pound, so it's easy to convert grains to pounds to kg, then calculate energy as KE=1/2mv^2 as Joules (work).

If you're really bored you can take the stopping distance of the bullet s, calculate the deceleration as a=v^2/(2*s), the stopping time as t=v/a, and the power delivered as p=w/t, where w (work) is the kinetic energy in joules and power is in Watts.

For example, a .308 bullet weighing 150 grains stopping from 2600 feet per second in eight inches gives:
Weight = 150 grains = 0.021428 lbs = 0.00974 kg
velocity = 2600 fps = 792.48 m/sec
KE = 3,058 Joules
stopping distance = 8 inches = 0.2032 meters
deceleration = 1,545,339.1 m/sec^2
stopping time = 0.0005128 seconds (0.5128 milliseconds)
power = 5.964 megaWatts.

That last number is why we haven't replaced guns with lasers yet.
 
Even the best experts in the field have different opinions about how peoples bodies SHOULD react to a gunshot wound.

Look at all the debate about the Kennedy assassination. Some say if shot from behind his head should move forward. Some say it should move backward. Some say to one side or the other.

I think it is pretty safe to say that each persons body is different enough and each gunshot wound is unique enough that consistently predicting body movement to supersonic projectile impact is all but impossible.
 
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