Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Commander Richard, Jan 14, 2020.
One is an Andorian (possibly female), and the other is a man with a bald spot.
I meant in total in the transporter gateway scene, not just in that screencapture.
The original DS9/VOY uniforms were meant to appear "loose, comfortable, everyday-get-your-hands-dirty outfits" emphasized by the coverall style and Obriens rolled sleeves. In fact, the actors wore compression undershirts, and the jumpsuits had "boot loops" going under the uniform boots so the uniform would always be "straight" and "proportional" on film. The FC uniforms for the TNG cast were designed to be a little more form fitting rather than "loose", and especially flattering for the ladies (per request by Gates and Sirtis). No idea how they tailored it for the DS9 cast.
I like the Voyager-Esque look for the 2480's AND 90's.
In current contemporary navy's:
2. Rear Admiral
3. Vice Admiral
4. [Full] Admiral
5. Fleet Admiral
6. Admiral of the Navy
In US history, there was never a 6 star admiral although it was considered a few times. The modern Navy, of which Starfleet has certainly taken a lot of inspiration from over the years, has the Chief of Navel Operation (CNO) as the uniformed head of the Navy, although the actual command structure is a little bit more complicated. In the more simplified television Federation Navy, Starfleets highest ranking Admiral would be the CNO equivalent. Admiral Clancy is referred to in the notes as a Fleet Admiral with 5 pips as well as being CINC; aka Head of Starfleet.
Spoiler: Admiral Clancy
Yes, the original DS9 uniforms were great for deep-in-elbow grease work environments like DS9 and the bright colors lit up the station. I never thought they were worthy successors to the original TNG uniforms which were form-fitting, sleek, but uncomfortable for the actors. It's hard for a designer to make a uniform that both looks good and is comfortable for the actors. I never thought the 3rd season redesign for the male uniforms on TNG worked because the William Theiss design was meant for form-fitting outfits not loose jackets. The women stayed in spandex.
The FC uniforms seemed a little bland and drab and I never like the quilted stitching on the shoulders.
The new Picard uniforms seem to be a good balance between comfort for the actors and a form-fitting style.
The FC uniforms were meant to help demonstrate that Starfleet was moving towards a more militarized footing after the encounters with the Dominion, Klingon War and Borg
Looks like she's got a Pet Rock, guess that fad lasts for a bit.
Thanks. I don’t know how I missed that.
I never really saw the DS9 / Voyager uniforms as “successor” to the TNG uniforms. Rather, they were “working dress” alongside the more formal dress that was the Season 3 onwards TNG uniform. In many respects they were the replacement for the single-colour worksuits seen in early TNG, which were themselves the direct successors to the very similar worksuits that appeared back in TOS, the difference being that they were designed in such a way that they were accepted for a broader scope of operational roles
The two clearly existed together but served different purposes. In that respect it seemed much more sensible; why would Starfleet have only *one* type of day-to-day uniform?!
The DS9 jumpsuits were effectively the Class B or “utility” uniform to TNG’s Class A uniform, with the very formal wrapover / double-breasted Dress Uniform sitting in the category above that again.
The move to the First Contact uniforms served a multitude of purposes:
In-universe, it represented an upgrade to the DS9 / Class B, which was being worn more frequently because of the various conflict situations and the more militaristic footing of Starfleet around that time. Noticeably, however, it was still being used alongside the TNG uniform as an upgrade to the until uniform rather than a replacement for ALL the other Starfleet uniforms (even if the others were seen much less at that point). The TNG uniform still appeared from time to time, right up to the end of DS9.
Out-of-universe, it kept the established design cues and aesthetics that were familiar to the audiences but moved the color palette to a darker appearance, which suited the tone of both the First Contact movie and the story arcs of DS9. Equally, on the big screen and evolving HD TV, the significantly greater level of additional details around the shoulders and the collar (as well as on the cuffs) made the uniforms appear much more interesting — the original DS9 uniforms, while fine for the small screen, had appeared to be far, far to bland and devoid of detail on cinema screens in Generations (admittedly, not that movie’s only problem...). The new look helped quite considerably in making First Contact the success that it was.
They have now filled in the two obvious gaps in the mid-TNG onwards flag officer rank insignia that had never been seen on-screen before and have therefore pretty much established the senior ranks as:
Rear Admiral 2-pips
Fleet Admiral (or possibly Admiral of the Fleet) and Commander-in-Chief 5-pips
The wardrobe department was hopeless at continuity for these grades throughout much of early- to mid-TNG, and a lot of the early mis-matched can’t be put down to anything other than either mistakes or lack of thought / attention to detail, but they now seem to have more of a fixed idea of a specific rank scheme and are largely sticking to it.
I kind of agree that, in many ways, the aesthetics of the Picard “flashback” uniforms are probably better suited to bring them *later* version and the Picard “current” uniforms look more like the natural successors to the First Contact era. It’s almost like they were designed to be the other way around but got switched at some point during the production process!!
Who knows, maybe we’ll find out more at some point in the future when more of the behind-the-scenes stuff becomes available.
I suspect the more prosaic answer is that it probably began with the production decision that Picard had to have a cool looking Admiral uniform — but it had to be obviously different to the First Contact uniforms in order to set it apart. And everything else followed on from that...
Did they? There's that one guy in the deep background in Tears of the Prophets, but other than that I don't recall seeing the TNG costumes after the FC ones were introduced.
There was the early part of season six when they were in a transition period with the Admirals uniforms - Ross changes over in Behind the Lines I think. And the dress uniforms in Dax and Worf's wedding are the TNG ones, albeit with belts.
The only time I recall seeing the DS9 jumpsuits after FC is on Voyager...
^^^I agree that the original DS9 uniforms are a great class B uniform. The class A standard uniform needs to be something a little more visually interesting.
I thought the DS9 uniforms were initially supposed to be for outposts and space stations, while the TNG uniforms were for ships and HQ. That's why Sisko had the TNG uniform before he took his post at DS9 and while he was stationed at HQ. Then they dropped the TNG one for ships and all had the DS9 version until they were all replaced by the FC version.
I like the new uniforms. They look better in HD than they did in the original leaked pics, what with the detailing on the yoke. The costume designer, Christine Clark, also responded to me on Twitter and conformed that there is a raised black strip just beneath the yoke, almost like piping.
My one complaint is that the admiral's uniform didn't have any gold braiding. The TNG admirals' uniforms were all bling, and even Picard's in 2385 has gold braiding. A sure sign that Starfleet has taken a turn for the worse
Geez Clancy looks like she just realised she's shit herself in that photo
For my personal taste, I'd prefer:
Commodore of the Fleet (referred to as Commodore) = 1 pip
Rear Admiral of the Fleet (referred to as [Rear] Admiral) = 2 pips
Vice Admiral of the Fleet (formal rank is [Vice] Admiral, Fleet Admiral is a command billet) = 3 pips.
Admiral of the Fleet (Formal rank is Admiral, assignable as Fleet Admiral [see above], but typically held by HQ Directors) = four pips.
Chief/Grand Admiral of the Fleet (At minimum the non-substantive rank held by the Commander in Chief but may also be worn by the "Joint Chiefs"*= five pips^
^ A "five pip" braid (and double stripe tunic gilding) was created for the Monster Maroons, but only the latter is apparent on-screen (and exclusive to the C-in-C).
* As the 'five pip' rank appears to be one grade higher during the Monster Maroon-era than otherwise (as a further "no pip" braid exists in that system), it would be reasonable to assume that the other "Service Chiefs" (In Treklit, originally CoS-UESPA ("Exploration"), CoS-AG ("Defence"), CoS-TSA, CoS-ACSRC and CoS-VSC, but other sources vary) hold Grand Admiral/Chief Admiral rank substantively during other eras including PIC).
Some sloppy attention to detail when it comes to the rank pips on this show so far...
Rizzo's pips bunched up together, Oh's pip looking wonky... come on!
^ And you have the appropriate avatar for your post.
I miss the jackets. These uniforms look well constructed but remind me of pajamas. Love Oh's comm badge.
Why would Oh need sunglasses when Vulcans have the inner eyelid to protect their eyes?
Maybe it's a fashion thing
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