What do you think Kirk's "pain" would of been?

[Citiprime]

The Final Frontier has many flaws, but as more than a few people have noted there are some really interesting and good scenes mixed in with the bad. Beyond that, I also think the movie at moments gives an interesting insight into how Shatner perceives the character of Kirk to be. For example, the ominous way Kirk says he knows that he'll die alone, with an air of certainty, hints at something deeper.

Something I've always found interesting is that the movie never reveals what Kirk's inner pain is, and the character's impassioned defense of keeping his pain points to him believing it defines who he is.

One answer would be it's David, especially since The Undiscovered Country shows how deep of a scar David's death caused. However, I just don't feel like that's it. David's death is a deep trauma for Kirk, but it's not a defining element of his character which shifted his outlook on life the way the experiences for McCoy and Spock were portrayed.

 

[Vger23]

I think the David angle wouldn't have been his untimely and tragic death, but it would have been not having David in his life while he was growing up. It's kind of similar to Picard's Nexus dream about family and "the road not taken." If you mix in his failed relationship with Carol...I still think it's a viable and dramatic place to have been explored in TFF.

I think one of Kirk's pain points may have been the death of Miramanee and his unborn child from "The Paradise Syndrome." That was a genuinely tragic story, and I'm sure it caused him some grief and pain...particularly if he blamed himself for how the tribe treated her.

All that said, I do think ultimately that Kirk's refusal to participate was the right way to go in that scene. Shatner plays that scene excellently (almost like it hurts him to admit that he "needs his pain") and it is actually a truly defining moment for the character.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Losing people close to him.

 

[shapeshifter]

The death of his father. Probably not on the Kelvin but somehow and perhaps tragically.

 

[danellis]

I think it's the same as Captain Pike's in "The Cage"

" I'm tired of being responsible for xxx lives, and... I'm tired of deciding which mission is too risky and which isn't, and who's going on the landing party and who doesn't. And who lives... and who dies."

BUT he knew that he had the strength, and knowledge, and willpower to make the right decisions, so that as many people as possible live, and as few as possible die.

dJE

 

[LAFR]

His lack of real hair.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Edith and Miramanee for sure. (Spock made him forget Rayna.) Garrovick, the captain he blamed himself for losing, in "Obsession". His brother (and sister-in-law) in "Operation: Annihiate". The loss of David only weeks after forging a bond.

 

[DonIago]

If the technology and other resources had existed to do it justice, it would have been a hell of a thing to see a flashback montage to everyone Kirk's lost under his command, or even, if you prefer, the more "significant" ones.

 

[Myko]

People who write "would of" instead of "would have".

 

[valkyrie013]

All the redshirts that died .. So many..... So many..

 

[Vger23]

Honestly, we joke about RedShirts, but I'd guess that deaths under his command because of difficult decisions he was forced to make or even mistakes he made would be near the top of that list.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Reoccurring backpain from the chair.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[UssGlenn]

I think the David angle wouldn't have been his untimely and tragic death, but it would have been not having David in his life while he was growing up

I agree, we would see the conversation where Carol tells him, she doesn't want him involved. Kirk knows he could have resigned from Starfleet and been David's father, but he wanted to stay in starfleet and not be tied down so he didn't even try to fight it.

 

[publiusr]

Maybe something from the Academy or SFHQ:

“I can’t believe they gave Pike’s ship to that brat…” The unworthy survivor thing gnawing at him.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Perhaps Carol unable to forgive Kirk for David's death compounded with Kirk's own feelings of guilt, regret and responsibility for David's death and not being the father he felt he could have been.

Or Sam's death. That would tie in nicely with his statement that "other people not us" have families and the mention that he "lost a brother once" and the flipped it to mean Spock. Actually, I think I like that (if I may say so myself). It's fills in the movie within the context of the film rather than brining up women Kirk never mentioned again.

 

[Qonundrum]

Having visions of Wesley Crusher?

 

[C.E. Evans]

Honestly, we joke about RedShirts, but I'd guess that deaths under his command because of difficult decisions he was forced to make or even mistakes he made would be near the top of that list.

That's what I would go with.

Interestingly enough, in the novelization of TMP, there's a preface by then Admiral KIrk in which he blamed himself for the deaths of ninety-four people under his command during the five-year mission due to not being smart or quick enough at critical times. Now while all of that--including the number of deaths--can only be taken with a grain of salt, I could see Kirk's pain being the loss of people under his watch. Having that taken away by Sybok not only would diminish their deaths, but also diminish Kik as well, IMO.

 

[UssGlenn]

Perhaps Carol unable to forgive Kirk for David's death compounded with Kirk's own feelings of guilt, regret and responsibility for David's death and not being the father he felt he could have been.

Can you imagine that conversation? Carol spends years keeping David and Kirk apart, and probably feels not insignificant guilt about it. The two finally meet and the first thing David does after is go on a mission and get himself killed being heroic. It's no wonder we never hear from Carol again.

 

[Pauln6]

That girdle.

 

[Jayson1]

The Death of Edith Keeler, David, his brother and all those who served under him and of course The Enterprise herself.