What do you think Kirk's "pain" would of been?
- Thread starter Citiprime
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Losing Spock in TWoK. His most vulnerable moment.
Definitely Spock's death and almost all else that happened on II, those were the things that changed Kirk forever*.
* by 'forever' I mean until Nimoy's two movies hit Star Trek's reset button to where they had gone before.
If Spock stayed dead, I might agree, but since he got him back, that pretty much wiped out that pain. I can't imagine Kirk is still carrying around the pain of the death of a friend who is standing right in front of him.
There are tons of permanent deaths traumas in Kirk's past and he might not have been referring to a specific pain at all. He carries a ton of it.
But say he is thinking of one.
David? I would imagine the most probable pain he's referring to since it's the films we're dealing with and the most recent (and he's still dealing with itin the next film).
Edith Keeler? I don't put her as high up as most folks. Fans like to think she was his one true love. I think Miramanee's death would be worse since she was his actual wife and was carrying his first (as far as we know) kid as well. Much like Picard with "The Inner Light" (but on a smaller scale) Kirk lost an entire life at the end of that episode. And if Kirk never fell into the obelisk, she wouldn't have been stoned to death, so there's a measure of guilt there as well. But nobody likes that episode...
Carol? Probable resentment and blame after David died, so sure, that would go hand in hand with David's death.
Sam? Yup. He mentioned having a brother and did the bait and switch to Spock for that touching moment. So sure, loss of brothers was a part of this movie.
And, knowing Kirk, he carried the guilt of every single death under his command. So it could be as simple as that. But Spock was the one loss he recovered - other than the Enterprise. I know I would be totally over the death of my dad if he walked through my front door right now (after I freaked out over seeing him resurrected
).
I think it goes back further and his desire for revenge against Kodos.
If you interpret his mid-life-crisis-rock-climbing nonsense at the beginning of the film as Kirk's fear of getting old, then it becomes obvious what his secret pain was. But that's just my opinion. I think the reality was that Shatner never intended Kirk to show any pain because Kirk was being portrayed as better and stronger than everyone else.
What I think Kirk might on some level be unsure of with Spock is whether Spock is still Spock after he returned to life. Nobody fully understands a Katra and any possibility it might be what humans would call a soul. Even though he is glad Spock is back, I wonder if in the back of his mind he has this thought he kind of tries to push down and that is 'Is this really my Spock. Is he really him or some kind of exact copy." and so forth.
He had moments of doubt. Then he stepped through the transporter and his nearly-identical copy had no such doubts.
I suspect not given Sarek's certainty.
well he was not wrong
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