What do you diehard TOS fans think of the new movie?

[Therin of Andor]

The only young Kirk I know is the one described in TOS.

Which is waaaaaaaaay open to interpretation.

Finnegan saw him as a target for bullying (as did the movie's Cupcake).

Kirk tells Gary he was a "textbook on legs" (the movie's Kirk boasts he'll do four years of study in three, and he made a point of researching Pike's dissertation on the Kelvin) and "positively grim".

Plenty of room for pretty-boy petulance.

there were adults (including teachers and mentors) who said: "You're a bright kid - why would you waste your time on such drivel?" or "This is so dumb. I can't believe you watch this show."

Most school teachers I knew were very open to ST, and it was the highest occupation in our club's membership, alongside public librarians.

I'm now a school librarian.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

Yesterday I showed the movie to a few older family members (40+ to 60+), who grew up with TOS. Most of them were hesistant, learning beforehand that Kirk & co would be a group of youngsters. But at the end, all of them loved the movie. One of them (the oldest) admitted that the scenes were a bit too hard to follow sometimes, due to the speed. The rest had no problems with that, they were used to modern television. All found the opening sequence marvellous, and they've let me promise to tell them when I know the next movie will be out.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

this movie does assassinate Kirk's essential character in order to bring him in line with the 21st Century entitled pretty boy brat archetype (and yes, I know this noxious archetype has been around for ages--thing is, Kirk was never an exemplar of it);

And yet the tie-in novels (and comics) have almost always portrayed young Jimmy Kirk as a petulant, pretty boy brat archetype in their flashback scenes: "Final Frontier", "Best Destiny", a short story ("Though Hell Should Bar the Way", IIRC) and even Shatner's own "Academy: Collision Course".

Funny how people are quoting Diane Carey's interpretation and the Shatnerverse as Gospel on teen-Brando Kirk, when these are the books that get the least love from Trek Lit fanatics.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

The only young Kirk I know is the one described in TOS.

Which is waaaaaaaaay open to interpretation.

Finnegan saw him as a target for bullying (as did the movie's Cupcake).

Kirk tells Gary he was a "textbook on legs" (the movie's Kirk boasts he'll do four years of study in three, and he made a point of researching Pike's dissertation on the Kelvin) and "positively grim".

Plenty of room for pretty-boy petulance.

Actually, Gary tells Kirk that Kirk was "stack of books with legs" and Kirk tells (Saw)Bones in "Shore Leave" that he was "positively grim."

Some room, I'd say, rather than plenty. Just as (no, Rey, don't open that can of worms again--please God, no!) the original, authorial intent of "Turnabout Intruder" is clear, so it is that the Kirk of TOS did not behave at all like the Kirk of XI. We can retcon so it fits the new interpretation, just as we can retcon Janice Lester to fit Erika Hernadez (Hmmm, I'd like to be retconned so I can fit Erika Hernandez ) but I think we should acknowledge it as retcon.

 

[GhostFaceSaint]

I love this new film and would like to see other characters brought back for future films such as Gary-7, Commander Kor, Harry Mudd, and the Romulan Commander from "Balance Of Terror" remember his last line to Kirk at the end of the episode: "I regret that we meet in this way. You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend," Wow, this has to be explored!

 

[Therin of Andor]

Funny how people are quoting Diane Carey's interpretation and the Shatnerverse as Gospel on teen-Brando Kirk, when these are the books that get the least love from Trek Lit fanatics.

While "Best Destiny" gets slammed often, it's always been my impression that "Final Frontier" is highly respected.

 

[Captain Robert April]

I think I need to speak up on behalf of "Collision Course"; yeah, he's a troublemaker at that point in his life, but it's also explicitly pointed out how it was his time on Tarsus IV started him down that path, and before then, he was very much the starry-eyed kid who couldn't wait to sign up. In other words, the bad-boy phase is just that, a phase, and the story's resolution is him getting over it and returning to that kid who couldn't wait to join Starfleet.

JJ's version, well, that's just the way his Kirk is. His Kirk was never interested in Starfleet, or in anything more inspiring than nailing chicks and winning bar fights.

 

[Therin of Andor]

the bad-boy phase is just that, a phase.

A phase most teenagers go through.

 

[Chrisisall]

I love this new film and would like to see other characters brought back for future films such as Gary-7, Commander Kor, Harry Mudd, and the Romulan Commander from "Balance Of Terror" remember his last line to Kirk at the end of the episode: "I regret that we meet in this way. You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend," Wow, this has to be explored!

What GFS said.

 

[BillJ]

JJ's version, well, that's just the way his Kirk is. His Kirk was never interested in Starfleet, or in anything more inspiring than nailing chicks and winning bar fights.

That's all a lot of young men are interested in...

 

[Captain Robert April]

the bad-boy phase is just that, a phase.

A phase most teenagers go through.

Shatner has Kirk getting through that phase at 17, while JJ's Kirk is acting even less mature in his mid 20's.

 

[Chrisisall]

[

Shatner has Kirk getting through that phase at 17, while JJ's Kirk is acting even less mature in his mid 20's.

He'll gain grace quickly now, though.

 

[Captain Robert April]

By all rights, he should've been courtmartialed at the end of this movie, not promoted.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

By all rights, he should've been courtmartialed at the end of this movie, not promoted.

Why for saving Earth, or pointing out to a superior officer that he is obviously emotionally compromised in a life or death situtation, or saving the life of a superior officer.

 

[Chrisisall]

By all rights, he should've been courtmartialed at the end of this movie, not promoted.

Why for saving Earth, or pointing out to a superior officer that he is obviously emotionally compromised in a life or death situation, or saving the life of a superior officer.

Yes. Because in the military, as in corporations, what WORKS is second to a good-looking chain of command & the idea that peeps know more than you do due to their rank, and not their intelligence or innate problem-solving ability.
Oh wait- that's now... in the 23rd Century it could be different.
Never mind.

 

[Captain Robert April]

In retrospect, since just about the entirety of Starfleet portrayed in this film doesn't seem to have the brain power required to screw in a light bulb, a court martial for gross insubordination and conduct unbecoming, not only for Kirk but also for Spock, might be asking a bit much....

 

[Chrisisall]

In retrospect, since just about the entirety of Starfleet portrayed in this film doesn't seem to have the brain power required to screw in a light bulb

Q: How many Starfleet cadets does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: None.

 

[Anticitizen]

By all rights, he should've been courtmartialed at the end of this movie, not promoted.

Why for saving Earth, or pointing out to a superior officer that he is obviously emotionally compromised in a life or death situtation, or saving the life of a superior officer.

What bugs me about the 'emotionally compromised' bit is that it wasn't affecting Spock's command decisions in the slightest. Spock had orders to rendevous with the fleet, and that's what he was doing. If anything, Kirk was the one acting 'emotionally compromised' when he started a fight on the bridge, and, if he hadn't been shunted off to Delta Vega and they did go to Earth instead, they never would've gotten the long-range beaming and the Enterprise would've been destroyed.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Now that we're on the subject of Kirk--thanks to Therin quoting an old post of mine--let me just make the counter-argument myself, without resorting to non-canonical sources: TOS Kirk grew up with a father, Trek XI Kirk without. Instead, he was saddled with a step-father who was, at best, a douche and a mother who was apparently so deranged by the loss of her husband that she became stupid enough to hook-up with said douche and selfish enough--apaprently--that she often skips out and leaves her boys to his mercies. This Kirk has only a little more in common with TOS Kirk than Shinzon had with Jean-Luc Picard.

People harping on the bar fight should cut Kirk some slack--he wasn't being particularly rude to Uhura, just persistent (and, with the games women run, oh, 123% of the time, persistence is required) and the Star Fleet guys came up and started trying to intimidate him with no real provocation. Indeed, that's what fans should be concerned with: four cadets took turns beating up a single civililan, one of them seemingly intent on beating that civilian to death, and yet at least two of them are still in Star Fleet, one of them posted to the explicit flag ship. The lot of them should have been dishonarably discharged and served a year or two at the 23rd century equivalent of Leavenworth. That they aren't establishes Star Fleet as little more than a cadre of thugs.

 

[Chrisisall]

That they aren't establishes Star Fleet as little more than a cadre of thugs.

OR, as a service lookin' for peeps that can fight, damn the misdeeds of a few. Sorta like our present day police force, eh? It's a time of WAR, dude, lots of s**t slides by like that. Rules are made to be bent, as long as the bigger picture gets attention. If you call ST's Starfleet a cadre of thugs, then you de-facto call our present day military & police the same.
Not that I would disagree on any particular point.
Use of force is usually employed by peeps willing & able to deal out that force with little or no reservations. Kirk was a punk lookin' for trouble- who are Starfleet "guys" to refuse him what he wanted?

Just offering up a different perspective is all.