What do those uniform colors mean, anyway?!

[Jedi Marso]

My original take on the TOS uni colors:

Gold (Green): Unrestricted Line. (Line of command)
Blue: Medical / Sciences. That one always seemed most obvious of all.
Red: Engineering, Security, and other Restricted Line specialties.

Now Spock was clearly an exception, and Kirk often referred to him as "Executive Science Officer", implying he was wearing two hats. I think Spock could have worn either gold or blue as it suited him, but he always clearly identified more as a scientist and often stated that he had no desire to command.

Scotty was another exception, and probably others when we saw someone with a red shirt sitting in the center seat. Call it plot, or whatever. Hollywood rules are made to be broken, and it was always a treat when Scotty had the bridge for whatever reason.

"Mr. Scott, you will lower those shields!"
"No sair! I will nae!"

DISCLAIMER: I didn't read through the whole thread. If I'm parroting someone else, apologies.

 

[alchemist]

Hey, your information came from the same site mine did.

This is the page I read http://www.startrekpropauthority.com/2009/10/star-trek-tos-1st-season-command-tunic.html, and it features a few pictures of the velour and nylon fabric side by side, like this close up:

(I didn't hotlink it).

What I could really use is a photo of the season 1 and season 3 tunics together in the same shot. Multiple photos in fact. Under different lighting conditions. On different types of film.

Take this side-by-side comparison with a large grain of salt. It doesn't take into account chemical changes in the fabrics due to cleaning, exposure to air over decades, the stability of the dyes, etc. Check out the color of this tunic for a stark example. Also, here's an interview with Theiss from the same site. Note what he says about the tunic colors. Other people that were on the set have said the same thing.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

That's an interesting interview and not just because of what he says about the uniforms. Thanks for linking that.

I don't think it contracts what I read on the other page though. He said the tunics were green, he didn't say that they were always green, and the interview was after the third season. The comment afterwards about the dress uniforms wasn't by Theiss.

Your point about the dyes faiding is fair and also annoying, because it makes it less likely we'll ever get absolute proof one way or the other. All I know (assuming the site isn't all lies) is that the season 3 tunics are definitely green these days, the season 1 tunics appear gold these days, and the site keeps saying the fabric is 'gold velour'.

 

[FormerLurker]

We've had threads on this. All the evidence incl eyewitnesses incl Theiss say it was apple- or avocado green.

Threads and comments and pics and swatches and testimony by dye experts.

It was a greenish-yellow chartreuse in real life.

I've seen a season three tunic in a museum on tour. It is not gold. It is avocado green with a yellow. Green-chartreuse in other words. It was green on set. It was green on location. It photographed green, yellow, mustard, brown and buff because of the weirdo properties of velour, studio lighting and film stock. All of which can vary, which is why the color varies. As in my avatar. That's brown by any standard. But it was olive green avocado chartreuse to the human eye under most lighting conditions in person.

It just was.

Eyewitnesses don't matter. "Real LIfe" doesn't matter. All that matters is what we saw on our shiny new color televisions. And on those they were gold, on set, on location, lit by arclights, the sun, and Boy Scout flashlights. For fans, there was no "in person". Just what was on the TV.

 

[Neopeius]

My original take on the TOS uni colors:

Gold (Green): Unrestricted Line. (Line of command)
Blue: Medical / Sciences. That one always seemed most obvious of all.
Red: Engineering, Security, and other Restricted Line specialties.

Now Spock was clearly an exception, and Kirk often referred to him as "Executive Science Officer", implying he was wearing two hats. I think Spock could have worn either gold or blue as it suited him, but he always clearly identified more as a scientist and often stated that he had no desire to command.

Scotty was another exception, and probably others when we saw someone with a red shirt sitting in the center seat. Call it plot, or whatever. Hollywood rules are made to be broken, and it was always a treat when Scotty had the bridge for whatever reason.

"Mr. Scott, you will lower those shields!"
"No sair! I will nae!"

DISCLAIMER: I didn't read through the whole thread. If I'm parroting someone else, apologies.

You're just fine. When did you get into Trek?

 

[Jedi Marso]

Well I was born in 1968, so too young to remember the original run. Probably whenever they began doing reruns back in the 70's was when I started watching, because both my parents were fans. I was well versed in TOS before I moved overseas (Navy kid) back in 1977, and the base theater used to sometimes run a couple episodes back to back as the weekend matinee. So I can honestly say I don't really remember a time when I didn't know Trek, realistically speaking. Like Cheerios and Coca Cola, it's 'always been there', baked into my DNA so to speak, as far back as I can actively recall.

EDIT: Got HEAVILY into it in the 1980's with the FASA RPG. Some of the best TOS Trek material ever made.

 

[Commander Troi]

I started watching with the re-runs in the 70s too. In my head (I think) it was Gold = Command and Piloting, Red = Engineering and Security, and Blue = Sciences and Medical. I don't think I even noticed the braids as a kid.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Talk of catching Trek in original syndication makes me nostalgic for old TVs, American TV dinners and throwing a baseball around with my dad.

All memories which don’t belong to me. I was raised in the U.K. and didn’t see TOS until the 1990s.

Still, you guys make those days sound so fuzzy and warm that I wish I lived through them. I get the same feeling when I read 60s/70s Marvel comics with the ads still inside. Nostalgic for an imagined childhood.

Elegiac and beautiful all at once!

 

[Nerys Myk]

Talk of catching Trek in original syndication makes me nostalgic for old TVs, American TV dinners and throwing a baseball around with my dad.

All memories which don’t belong to me. I was raised in the U.K. and didn’t see TOS until the 1990s.

Still, you guys make those days sound so fuzzy and warm that I wish I lived through them. I get the same feeling when I read 60s/70s Marvel comics with the ads still inside. Nostalgic for an imagined childhood.

Elegiac and beautiful all at once!

I liked that I could catch the reruns on two stations because we received signals from two markets.

 

[Jedi Marso]

Talk of catching Trek in original syndication makes me nostalgic for old TVs, American TV dinners and throwing a baseball around with my dad.

All memories which don’t belong to me. I was raised in the U.K. and didn’t see TOS until the 1990s.

Still, you guys make those days sound so fuzzy and warm that I wish I lived through them. I get the same feeling when I read 60s/70s Marvel comics with the ads still inside. Nostalgic for an imagined childhood.

Elegiac and beautiful all at once!

I've often said that one of the great injustices a person can suffer is to live a life that didn't include being a kid/teen in the 70's/80's.

 

[STEPhon IT]

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Yep. It was THAT color I saw in person and to this day had altered my mind forever. Its green, guys, sorry Kirk's tunic wasn't yellow and DEFINITELY not Gold.

 

[fireproof78]

Yep. It was THAT color I saw in person and to this day had altered my mind forever. Its green, guys, sorry Kirk's tunic wasn't yellow and DEFINITELY not Gold.

Looks green gold to my eyes.

And, regardless, it is described in universe as gold. Has been since I read TOS books.

 

[Neopeius]

I've often said that one of the great injustices a person can suffer is to live a life that didn't include being a kid/teen in the 70's/80's.

The 80s warn't that great. I'm very much looking forward to the 70s, though...

 

[STEPhon IT]

Looks green gold to my eyes.

And, regardless, it is described in universe as gold. Has been since I read TOS books.

Glad to know it looks green gold in your eyes. I don't give a shit what's in universe, DISCO has an Enterprise which claimed to pre-date Matt Jefferies design. You can smoke it but you don't have to inhale it.

 

[fireproof78]

Glad to know it looks green gold in your eyes. I don't give a shit what's in universe, DISCO has an Enterprise which claimed to pre-date Matt Jefferies design. You can smoke it but you don't have to inhale it.

In universe means more to me than real life props. In general it appears more gold to me when watching on screen, which is all that matters. Verisimilitude in universe matters to me not just my own perception.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I'm certain that whatever colour we see on screen is the colour we were meant to see. They did a lot of colour tests, they knew what they were doing.

 

[STEPhon IT]

It looked different on film than what was standard for broadcasting. I had a rare opportunity to see "The Menagerie" in cinema screens; it was something to behold; not only were the colors correct I also discovered the pants the crew wore were sparkly. Something which couldn't be accurately depicted on those ancient NTSC broadcastings.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I don't give a shit what's in universe, DISCO has an Enterprise which claimed to pre-date Matt Jefferies design.

Nah, that's not how it works.

 

[HGN2001]

Here's an interesting look at the second pilot's uniform colors. I see both a gold/green and a flat tan. along with the blue.

 

[Neopeius]

Here's an interesting look at the second pilot's uniform colors. I see both a gold/green and a flat tan. along with the blue.

Which would put navigators and helmsmen in Engineering rather than "Line" -- interesting. Staff is still staff.