Not only did I watch many of the shows highlighted, I even remember that issue of TV Guide! Wow I'm getting old.
What do those uniform colors mean, anyway?!
- Thread starter Neopeius
- Start date
There were three colors: red, blue and light grey. But the grey and blue were so close, it was east to get them confused (especially in black and white).
As for Kirk's tunic color, they didn't make it green in the third season when they switched to the double knit fabric, so it was accept that Kirk wore "command gold." The animated series and Mego action figures ran with that as well. While the dolls don't mean much on their own, the animated series was run by Roddenberry and Fontana and neither one insisted on making Kirk or Sulu's tunics green.
The blu rays may be more "studio color" accurate but they are inaccurate otherwise.
Huh???
Which part? I'll clarify. The tunic color? It was accepted as gold not green, but the blu rays were made to stress the green.
The Voyage outfits? That was pretty clear.
He means the tunics may have leaned green in person, but everybody with a color TV turned on Star Trek and saw gold.
Did the Voyage colors signify anything in particular?
I will say that I find all of the Irwin Allen shows to be pretty brainless (an assessment I share with a lot of 60s contemporaries), but silly as Voyage is (I laughed out loud several times at the giant plant monster that starred on the latest episode), it's still somehow fun to watch. I cannot say the same of Lost in Space or Time Tunnel.
He means the tunics may have leaned green in person, but everybody with a color TV turned on Star Trek and saw gold.
@ZapBrannigan speaks my language.
Nah, the colors didn't mean anything and every so often crewman Petterson went from blue to red depending on the mood of the director apparantly. Or if Paul Trinka was cast in the role originally meant to be someone else ("Malloy" in one episode).
Voyage was a blast. At its peak, it was as good as any SF/Adventure show of its day. At its worst, it was about the crew battling leprechauns. There are a handful of episodes I can't watch, but most of the 110 episodes are great fun for me. It's my second favorite TV show ever, really just behind Trek.
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By that time there had been one significant onscreen clue: In "Dagger of the Mind" Van Gelder is spotted somewhere he didn't belong, apparently because he was wearing a red coverall uniform. "Hey you! From Engineering!"
Oh that's very helpful! Thank you.
By the way, for those thinking I had a hole in my head for calling Kirk's uniform "brown", I used this picture as representative and did a color-search to figure out what it is.
This color is "Barley Corn" -- "primarily a color from Yellow color family. It is a mixture of orange and brown color."
(I recognize that sometimes the uniform comes across as chartreuse, too. But the color above feels the most common. I'd definitely call this brown or bronze before I called it yellow).
By the way, for those thinking I had a hole in my head for calling Kirk's uniform "brown", I used this picture as representative and did a color-search to figure out what it is.
This color is "Barley Corn" -- "primarily a color from Yellow color family. It is a mixture of orange and brown color."
(I recognize that sometimes the uniform comes across as chartreuse, too. But the color above feels the most common. I'd definitely call this brown or bronze before I called it yellow).
In my experience, people more often speak of "brown" for darker values. Lighter shades tend toward descriptions like tan, beige, taupe, buff, fawn etc.
And when it comes to clothing, there seems to be an added level of difficulty. "Khaki" for instance, covers a huge range of variations. But I'm color-blind enough that I can't get too deep into color discussions.
Here's that exact frame from the 2004 DVD sets:
It does indeed look to be exactly the same color as the image above.
However, minutes earlier in the same scene, Kirk enters Karidian's quarters, and the lighting makes his uniform look more gold or yellowish in color:
Same scene, different positioning and lighting. There were many colored lighting gels in use on STAR TREK, casting bright colors on walls, doors, etc. These gels could and did alter the color of the main subject's clothes, skin and hair color.
As I was looking for these images, I passed by a scene on the main bridge, shot from above. Kirk, in his command chair, had on a very yellowish-looking uniform, and unnamed crewman in what-would-become Chekov's station was also wearing the command uniform, and his looks much more brownish.
We know, from various books that these uniforms were hot and went through multiple washings and repair, and that extras often had to wear whatever uniform costumes were available, hence the lack of color consistency based on fabrics, wash cycles, etc.
Add to all this the inconsistencies in the color TV's of the day and even the level of calibration of the monitors of people looking at this thread, and I think it was a wise decision of the creators to go with the flow and just accept the command level uniforms as being yellow/gold.
I don't see gold what so ever in those photos, DEEP SPACE NINE manipulates again, but what I do see is a yellow/ mustard color. Interesting how someone saw programming back then; that standard never honored the fascinating work the production artists had done to make one of the greatest TV series in history. I am so glad I live in an era where productions don't have to deal with that crap... has anyone had the opportunity to see "The Menagerie" on movie screens? The color was so rich and beautiful; that presentation fully gave justice to these production pioneers, these HD/4k is on the right direction and I would be displeased if post productions would be f^cking ignorant and color correct a series which finally presented what was meant to be seen.
Which is probably a function of it being matte. This is an interesting site on the subject.
"Printing a gold image using a single color, that is not a metallic ink, will typically result in a tan, yellow, or mustard color."
My favorite thread subject, command gold or green? I wonder why it’s my fave.
It has been done to death elsewhere if ppl want to search.
I saw a S3 tunic in the Detroit Science Center under bright white light. It was greenish-yellow. Chartreuse, a very 60s color, as was the gray blue science and cherry red engineering. I even posted greeting cards from the mid 60s with that palette. A lot had to do with velour. The S3’ photograph a bit greener to my eye b/c they don’t have that nap.
It has been done to death elsewhere if ppl want to search.
I saw a S3 tunic in the Detroit Science Center under bright white light. It was greenish-yellow. Chartreuse, a very 60s color, as was the gray blue science and cherry red engineering. I even posted greeting cards from the mid 60s with that palette. A lot had to do with velour. The S3’ photograph a bit greener to my eye b/c they don’t have that nap.
Well, the original question was "What does mustard mean?" (apart from delicious hot dogs)
Having deduced that red = engineering and blue = medical/science, I guess mustard is... line officer?
Specifically "line officer" in the naval sense (as opposed to "staff officer"). Which, since that's defined as persons "trained and qualified to exercise military command", describing mustard as "command" makes sense, too. I guess that answers my question!
I find it interesting that, in "The Menagerie", Spock surrenders himself to McCoy as he's the senior ranking officer, but McCoy, as Medical Officer, is staff, not line. Is that how it would work in the contemporary wet navy, or would Spock surrender to Hansen (presumably the senior line officer at the time, though not necessarily -- he might simply have been OOD).
Another question:
Quartermasters, pursers, medical officers, chaplains -- those are explicitly staff officers in my 1944 Bluejacket's Manual. Gunnery and navigation had their own departments, and on Trek, their officers wear command colors. Would they have been line officers back in the day? What about engineers and damage control officers?
I believe most of the above were traditionally warrant officers rather than commissioned line officers. The only exception were engineers who IIRC were a parallel track of commissioned officers similar to the modern staff officer at inception.
Interesting. It certainly looks like Trek basically used the Navy's split, then: Line officers, engineering/damage control, staff officers. With the exception that, at least with Mr. Spock, a staff officer can also be a line officer.
Also, communications, which I think was part of ops/line, eventually gets stuck in engineering/damage control. Which may explain why Uhura has yellow/red shirts.
Do navy ships have their own armed guards, or do they usually employ marines for that duty?
(I found this article interesting and useful).
A key thing to remember when comparing the Navy and Starfleet is that in the Navy, the officers are managers and not technicians. They are not the ones that will be rolling up their sleeves to get things done.
A typical career of an officer will include a variety of billets. For example, look at the diverse range of at-sea postings from the CO of the Zumwalt (emphasis added):
From the ship's official page: https://www.surfpac.navy.mil/Leaders/Biography/Article/2532643/capt-gary-l-cave/
A typical career of an officer will include a variety of billets. For example, look at the diverse range of at-sea postings from the CO of the Zumwalt (emphasis added):
At sea, his assignments include Fire Control Officer in USS CUSHING (DD 985), Administrative and Training Officer in USS THOMAS S GATES (CG 51), Chief Engineer in both USS DE WERT (FFG 45) and USS PRINCETON (CG 59), and Executive Officer of USS RUSSELL (DDG 59). After fleeting up to command in RUSSELL, he took command of USS HALSEY (DDG 97) following a hull-swap. Most recently, he had the privilege to serve as ZUMWALT’s Executive Officer.
From the ship's official page: https://www.surfpac.navy.mil/Leaders/Biography/Article/2532643/capt-gary-l-cave/
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