What do the Typhon Pact races look like?
- Thread starter Paris
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I remember one other reptilian race, but you may not have heard of them. They're called the Gorn. 
also the Xindi-Reptilians, the major antagonists at the end of the 'Expanse' arc of Enterprise. Of course, there's some kind of stealth embargo from ever doing anything with the Xindi in the 23rd or 24th century besides name dropping, so it seems like we won't learn more about them for some time (if ever). IT'S A CONSPIRACY
also the Xindi-Reptilians, the major antagonists at the end of the 'Expanse' arc of Enterprise. Of course, there's some kind of stealth embargo from ever doing anything with the Xindi in the 23rd or 24th century besides name dropping, so it seems like we won't learn more about them for some time (if ever). IT'S A CONSPIRACY
You all seem to be forgetting one MAJOR reptilian race that had a culture well-scaled out in Deep Space Nine.
The Cardassians.
The Cardassians.
Thanks for the clarification, Christopher! I knew I heard that somewhere, but I understood it was easily just a piece of fan bull.
Oh, yeah, I forgot about the Selay. Did we ever see them again after Lonely Among Us?
Oh, my god I'm an idiot.I remember one other reptilian race, but you may not have heard of them. They're called the Gorn.
also the Xindi-Reptilians, the major antagonists at the end of the 'Expanse' arc of Enterprise. Of course, there's some kind of stealth embargo from ever doing anything with the Xindi in the 23rd or 24th century besides name dropping, so it seems like we won't learn more about them for some time (if ever). IT'S A CONSPIRACY
The Cardassians are reptilian, I've always thought of them as just general mamalian humonoid?
They're cold-blooded, have scales, and prefer the heat to any kind of cold.
If it looks like a reptile and talks like a reptile...
If it looks like a reptile and talks like a reptile...
Back when "The Final Reflection" came out, I recall a lot of speculation that the Kinshaya were the Kzinti, just with a klingonaase name. But FASA and KRAD both took them in different directions.
Yeah, probably.
Well, there is some difference of opinion on that. As Memory Alpha puts it,
the Cardassians evolved from reptilian ancestors...but then again, so did Earth birds, and they aren't reptiles. From what I understand, there is a possibility that they are not quite one thing and not quite another. (I wish I could give you some specific genuses - people more knowledgeable than me have given specific examples - but my knowledge of biology just isn't that great.) There are biological precedents here on Planet Earth.
Plus the Cardassians apparently came from the same ancient humanoids that the rest of us came from (the ones featured in "The Chase"), so that has to make you wonder at least a little bit about the "reptile" part.
And anyway, they can apparently produce children with mammalian species such as Bajorans and Kazon.
So I don't think you can assume too much from those scales. And most of their skin isn't scaly anyway.
JD said:I just completly forgot about the cold blooded thing.
Are we actually told that they are cold-blooded? I can't remember, and Memory Alpha doesn't say anything about it. We are told that they like warm temperatures, but then again, so does my mom!
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Technically, mammals descended from reptiles too. Indeed, by modern taxonomic conventions, Mammalia should be classified as a subset of Reptilia, but tradition resists that.
Realistically, it's unlikely that taxonomy on an alien world would break down into the same categories that evolved on Earth. They wouldn't have actual reptiles or mammals or birds any more than they'd have the same individual species or the same continents and islands. They might have taxa that had various traits in common with reptiles or mammals or birds or whatever, but they'd have differences too.
Of course, in Trek we have the conceit of programmed DNA shaping evolution on multiple worlds, leading to nearly equivalent species and probably higher taxa as well. But there could still be exceptions to that pattern, planets where you don't have exact equivalents to reptiles or mammals or whatever.
Except that they seeded planets 4 billion years ago when there was nothing but primordial soup. So their genetic programming would have influenced Earthly evolution from the beginning, including the evolution from single-celled creatures to fish to amphibians to reptiles to synapsids to mammals.
I think it's unlikely that a humanoid would be exothermic. A sophisticated brain needs to run at a steady temperature, so warm-bloodedness is pretty much a prerequisite for a sapient species.
Though as stated, such a distinction between mammal/reptile might not be as cut and dry as it is on Earth. Remember that the Cardassian Embassy on Breen was seen as a punishment (IIRC) due to its extremely cold temperature. The Cardassians have always been seen as somewhat reptilian in nature, and their skin is more analogous to micro-scales than traditional flesh.
But what about the other reptilian species seen in Trek, are they all endotherms as well? What about the Voth?
Both the Voth and the Xindi-reptilians are said to be exotherms (indeed, they turn our usual biological prejudices on their head by insisting us endotherms are lower and "inferior" forms of life). How realistic an exothermic sapient species would be is a different matter, I suppose- as Christopher has said.
I'm not talking about mammals vs. reptiles, I'm talking specifically about endothermy vs. exothermy. Regardless of what taxonomic categories an alien biosphere might have, an intelligent species is going to need an active, steady metabolism in order to power its complex brain.
And finding cold temperatures uncomfortable is not evidence of cold-bloodedness. I'm an endotherm and I hate the cold. It just means that the species in question is acclimated to warmer temperatures. Now, if an organism grows sluggish and inactive in cold temperatures, that's evidence of exothermy. If they shiver, that's evidence of endothermy, because it shows that the body possesses mechanisms for internal heat generation.
Maybe an exothermic brain would work like a nuclear reactor, needing to be cooled in order to work properly.
The truth is, we have no idea what a real alien race would be like, so it is entirely possible that there are exothermic races out there, basking on rocks and the like.
The truth is, we have no idea what a real alien race would be like, so it is entirely possible that there are exothermic races out there, basking on rocks and the like.
That's a contradiction in terms. Either way, if the brain needs a steady temperature, that means the body has an internal form of temperature regulation, and that's endothermy by definition. An exotherm is an organism with no means of internal temperature regulation. An exotherm is cold when it's cold outside and warm when it's warm outside.
Besides, a nuclear reactor runs very, very hot; it needs cooling to keep from overheating. That might well be true of a powerful brain, but that brain would still need an internal source of metabolic energy to enable it to function at that level in the first place, again requiring an endothermic metabolism.
But we're speaking within the context of Star Trek's fictional conceit that humanoid intelligences are so similar to humans in their biology that they can survive on the same food and even interbreed successfully. So the basic biological, metabolic, and neurological processes of Cardassian life must be equivalent to those of Terrestrial life.
An exothermic sophont can't be ruled out, but it would have to be based on a very different biology, and its consciousness might operate at a significantly lower level of activity much of the time. It would have to be something a lot more alien than a Cardassian.
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Since Cardassians can have children with no noticeable problems with a Bajoran, it's unlikely that Cardassians are very reptilian at all. Most likely their appearance is an evolutionary adaptation to the heat of their world, which is the most barren of the majors powers' homeworlds.
In "Iron and Sacrifice" from Tales from the Captain's Table, a human man is said to have fallen in love with a Tzenkethi. This was written by David R. George III. Take that as you will. After all, Cole Paris did get "involved" with a sapient cloud creature. (He was a selfish lover.)
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