What Did You Think of Depressed Janeway in the Episode Night?

[kimc]

Frankly, I think "Night" also makes Chakotay look bad as a first officer. It doesn't reflect well on him that he can't keep the ships moral up during the Captains "absence". It shows the crew doesn't bond with him and has no confidence in his ability as a leader.

The ep. does more of a diservice to him than Janeway, IMO.

Hmm, I never thought of it that way. I simply took the crew asking after Janway as normal since as the captain they would naturally look to her for leadership.

 

[exodus]

Frankly, I think "Night" also makes Chakotay look bad as a first officer. It doesn't reflect well on him that he can't keep the ships moral up during the Captains "absence". It shows the crew doesn't bond with him and has no confidence in his ability as a leader.

The ep. does more of a diservice to him than Janeway, IMO.

Hmm, I never thought of it that way. I simply took the crew asking after Janway as normal since as the captain they would naturally look to her for leadership.

Understood but the First Officer is responsable for the ships personel and duty assignments. So like Riker, Chakotay is supposed to be more hands on with the crew because they're meant to work more directly with him than with the Captain. The First Officer is also the liason between the Captain & the crew.

 

[Malcom]

That's an interesting point I had not considered at all.

 

[kimc]

Frankly, I think "Night" also makes Chakotay look bad as a first officer. It doesn't reflect well on him that he can't keep the ships moral up during the Captains "absence". It shows the crew doesn't bond with him and has no confidence in his ability as a leader.

The ep. does more of a diservice to him than Janeway, IMO.

Hmm, I never thought of it that way. I simply took the crew asking after Janway as normal since as the captain they would naturally look to her for leadership.

Understood but the First Officer is responsable for the ships personel and duty assignments. So like Riker, Chakotay is supposed to be more hands on with the crew because they're meant to work more directly with him than with the Captain. The First Officer is also the liason between the Captain & the crew.

True but the captain is very much a figurehead and an inspiration so I could see how having her suddenly disappear could throw the crew for a loop - even though there was nothing to do.

 

[exodus]

Hmm, I never thought of it that way. I simply took the crew asking after Janway as normal since as the captain they would naturally look to her for leadership.

Understood but the First Officer is responsable for the ships personel and duty assignments. So like Riker, Chakotay is supposed to be more hands on with the crew because they're meant to work more directly with him than with the Captain. The First Officer is also the liason between the Captain & the crew.

True but the captain is very much a figurehead and an inspiration so I could see how having her suddenly disappear could throw the crew for a loop - even though there was nothing to do.

I don't disagree but it's also up to Chakotay as First Officer to step up and fill that void.

For example: what if Janeway had died during their trip thru the Delta Quaderant on their way home? If Chakotay couldn't handle the situation of crew moral during Janeway's depression, how could he ever handle the crew with her being gone? These are the types of issues and senarios he was trained for at the Academy and in the field as a commander.

I like the character Chakotay but the writers kept making him a failure as a leader. I don't recall Kirk, Picard or Sisko ever having to worry about such things with Spock, Riker or Kira.

 

[kimc]

I like the character Chakotay but the writers kept making him a failure as a leader. I don't recall Kirk, Picard or Sisko ever having to worry about such things with Spock, Riker or Kira.

I've heard "First Officer's syndrome" mentioned for all those characters although I will admit Chakotay's case seemed particularly bad towards the end.

 

[exodus]

I like the character Chakotay but the writers kept making him a failure as a leader. I don't recall Kirk, Picard or Sisko ever having to worry about such things with Spock, Riker or Kira.

I've heard "First Officer's syndrome" mentioned for all those characters although I will admit Chakotay's case seemed particularly bad towards the end.

Word!

BTW, what's up with all the MOD's and the nude avatars?

 

[kimc]

BTW, what's up with all the MOD's and the nude avatars?

Don't you recognize our Romulan overseer? We thought we'd give her an April Fool's gift.

 

[exodus]

BTW, what's up with all the MOD's and the nude avatars?

Don't you recognize our Romulan overseer? We thought we'd give her an April Fool's gift.

That's who I thought it was.

You guys are bad!!!!!

BTW, today is also my birthday.

 

[Tyberius]

There is a difference though. Janeway dealt with her depression by hiding from everyone in her quarters. Sisko did not hide away from his crew in his quarters.

I'm not a psychologist but I believe people deal with depression in different ways. Some need time alone to think things through and rejuvenate while others turn to those around them. I'm not sure if either is healthier but I imagine things would get unhealthy if either is done to extreme.

Yes I agree that people deal with depression in different ways. Some cry, some eat lots of food, some lock themselves away, and some goes as far as to commit suicide. My point is that there is a right and wrong way for a starship Captain to handle their depression. I do not think that a Captain locking herself away in her quarters is the proper way to handle it. It also seemed like Janeway had locked herself away for a while. Voyager had already been in the Void for two months when that episode airs and I wonder how much of that time she spent in her quarters (though I don't think she spent the whole two months there). She was neglecting Staff meetings, she didn't want to see people (Chakotay tells Seven not to go to Janeway's quarters to report to her), and will not spend time with her first officer (who suggests the holodeck to try to help her relax).

Yes, she helped out when the ship had a power failure, but still doesn't negate the fact that she had been dealing with her depression while in the Void in a manner unbecoming of a Starfleet captain.

I don't think that she had been dealing with her depression in a manner unbecoming of a Starfleet captain.

While in the void, it became quickly apparent that their was little to do keep the ship operational. In fact, the circumstances of the void required that people take breaks and engage in other activities to keep their sanity.

Janeway rarely gets an opportunity to have this alone time and begins to take extended personal time away from the bridge. She can catch up on her reading and research, and she is always available in case of an emergency.

Over time, this extended alone time, away from the crew causes the depression. So that her dealing with the void is the trigger for the depression and not the depression the trigger for her reclusiveness.

 

[exodus]

I'm not a psychologist but I believe people deal with depression in different ways. Some need time alone to think things through and rejuvenate while others turn to those around them. I'm not sure if either is healthier but I imagine things would get unhealthy if either is done to extreme.

Yes I agree that people deal with depression in different ways. Some cry, some eat lots of food, some lock themselves away, and some goes as far as to commit suicide. My point is that there is a right and wrong way for a starship Captain to handle their depression. I do not think that a Captain locking herself away in her quarters is the proper way to handle it. It also seemed like Janeway had locked herself away for a while. Voyager had already been in the Void for two months when that episode airs and I wonder how much of that time she spent in her quarters (though I don't think she spent the whole two months there). She was neglecting Staff meetings, she didn't want to see people (Chakotay tells Seven not to go to Janeway's quarters to report to her), and will not spend time with her first officer (who suggests the holodeck to try to help her relax).

Yes, she helped out when the ship had a power failure, but still doesn't negate the fact that she had been dealing with her depression while in the Void in a manner unbecoming of a Starfleet captain.

I don't think that she had been dealing with her depression in a manner unbecoming of a Starfleet captain.

While in the void, it became quickly apparent that their was little to do keep the ship operational. In fact, the circumstances of the void required that people take breaks and engage in other activities to keep their sanity.

Janeway rarely gets an opportunity to have this alone time and begins to take extended personal time away from the bridge. She can catch up on her reading and research, and she is always available in case of an emergency.

Over time, this extended alone time, away from the crew causes the depression. So that her dealing with the void is the trigger for the depression and not the depression the trigger for her reclusiveness.

Well said.

 

[Tino]

Thankfully, the third String Theory book has a good explanation for her behavior.

I haven't read this trilogy. So may I ask what the explanation was?

 

[Smiley]

Thankfully, the third String Theory book has a good explanation for her behavior.

I haven't read this trilogy. So may I ask what the explanation was?

The answer is upthread.

 

[David cgc]

Not that Voyager was ever the bastion of smooth character progression, but IMHO there should be more to Trek fiction than tying up loose ends, or 'fixing' the flaws (either real or percieved) that exist in the televised/cinematic works.

I completely agree. I was quite irritated when I got to that part of the book. I'd elaborate, but Trent Roman did it for me some days ago.

 

[Smiley]

Looking at the history of just the VOY publishing, we've had about 20 novels that told completely original stories. For the 10 anniversary, there were three novels and one anthology of short stories that both told original stories and tied up loose ends from the series. The approach used for the anniversary books will not work for everybody, but it was at the very least something different than what had gone before. Some people, myself included, were happy to see some books that approached the VOY mission with a broader focus than just "adventure of the week."