What Did You Think of Depressed Janeway in the Episode Night?

[Ro_Laren]

Who's Betsy?

It's a nickname for the large compression rifle she sometimes carries.

Is the nickname generated by this Board or elsewhere?

 

[kipron]

I have to go against the consensus here and say that the Janeway in Night is probably the most realistic and relateable version of the character that was ever achieved.

I mean clearly, Janeway has an Ahab streak and is a bit of a nutter.

That Night embraces this idea is no slight against the character - on the contrary, it informs pretty much every bizarre choice she makes from that point onwards.

 

[kipron]

Well put. I agree her depression does make sense when you consider the season finale from the previous episode. Perhaps a line or two referring to Arturis would have made things a bit clearer.

Great idea--"a line or two."

Unfortunately, that would've required the studio to allow continuity and Voyager had already used too much of its all-too-small allotment.

BTW, what was said in "String Theory"? Something more than a reference to Arturus?

Spoiler: String Theory

As a result of the weirdness Janeway went through in those books, she would be prone to mood swings and sometimes irrational behavior. If the crew made her aware of the condition, then she would relapse into insanity. It makes much more sense in context, believe me.

To respond to the comment made earlier, the creators should have addressed Janeway's odd behavior and many other issues over the course of the show. Since they didn't, however, it's nice to see the fiction tackle a few of the loose ends.

Not that Voyager was ever the bastion of smooth character progression, but IMHO there should be more to Trek fiction than tying up loose ends, or 'fixing' the flaws (either real or percieved) that exist in the televised/cinematic works.

FFS, at this point I'm half-expecting an anthology dedicated to connecting the dots between Janeway's various hairstyles. Because these things really need to be explained.

 

[exodus]

I liked Janeway in this episode. It shows not only the power of depression but the fact that as a human because of it you learn to doubt yourself and every choice you made even if it was possitive. Depression can cause even the strongest person to even consider suicide. Fans of Voyager debate Janeway's choice of what she did in "Caretaker" to this day. It was great the writers acknowledged that and wrote a story dealing with it.

It shows Janeway as human, flaws and all.
It was no different than the depression Sisko faced in "In the Pale Moonlight" and yet again in "Far Beyond the Stars". His depression cause him to cover up a murder.

 

[kimc]

Who's Betsy?

It's a nickname for the large compression rifle she sometimes carries.

Is the nickname generated by this Board or elsewhere?

Good question. I'm not sure where I first saw it but I know I've seen it at least several times over the years.

 

[exodus]

I have to go against the consensus here and say that the Janeway in Night is probably the most realistic and relateable version of the character that was ever achieved.

I mean clearly, Janeway has an Ahab streak and is a bit of a nutter.

That Night embraces this idea is no slight against the character - on the contrary, it informs pretty much every bizarre choice she makes from that point onwards.

Great analogy.

I think it also gives us a first glimps of the person Janeway might become in "Endgame". The cynical, emotionally cold person that no longer believed in helping strangers over those she knew personally.

 

[Bad Atom]

I really liked the concept and the reasoning behind the idea of Janeway's depression, but the execution in the episode left a lot to be desired. It was resolved way too easily and the whole "mutiny" angle was poorly done. But it was a good idea at the core, and I'm glad it was explored at all.

I actually expanded on the idea of Janeway secluding herself from her crew when I wrote my second spec script that year. I also tried to make up for Chakotay's lack of spine in the episode.

 

[Ro_Laren]

It shows Janeway as human, flaws and all.
It was no different than the depression Sisko faced in "In the Pale Moonlight" ... His depression cause him to cover up a murder.

There is a difference though. Janeway dealt with her depression by hiding from everyone in her quarters. Sisko did not hide away from his crew in his quarters.

 

[kimc]

It shows Janeway as human, flaws and all.
It was no different than the depression Sisko faced in "In the Pale Moonlight" ... His depression cause him to cover up a murder.

There is a difference though. Janeway dealt with her depression by hiding from everyone in her quarters. Sisko did not hide away from his crew in his quarters.

I'm not a psychologist but I believe people deal with depression in different ways. Some need time alone to think things through and rejuvenate while others turn to those around them. I'm not sure if either is healthier but I imagine things would get unhealthy if either is done to extreme.

In Janeway's case if she had stayed in her quarters when the ship was in danger THAT would have been extreme but as others have said when the chips were down she came through.

 

[exodus]

It shows Janeway as human, flaws and all.
It was no different than the depression Sisko faced in "In the Pale Moonlight" ... His depression cause him to cover up a murder.

There is a difference though. Janeway dealt with her depression by hiding from everyone in her quarters. Sisko did not hide away from his crew in his quarters.

I'm not a psychologist but I believe people deal with depression in different ways. Some need time alone to think things through and rejuvenate while others turn to those around them. I'm not sure if either is healthier but I imagine things would get unhealthy if either is done to extreme.

In Janeway's case if she had stayed in her quarters when the ship was in danger THAT would have been extreme but as others have said when the chips were down she came through.

I agree with all said here.

 

[Ro_Laren]

It shows Janeway as human, flaws and all.
It was no different than the depression Sisko faced in "In the Pale Moonlight" ... His depression cause him to cover up a murder.

There is a difference though. Janeway dealt with her depression by hiding from everyone in her quarters. Sisko did not hide away from his crew in his quarters.

I'm not a psychologist but I believe people deal with depression in different ways. Some need time alone to think things through and rejuvenate while others turn to those around them. I'm not sure if either is healthier but I imagine things would get unhealthy if either is done to extreme.

Yes I agree that people deal with depression in different ways. Some cry, some eat lots of food, some lock themselves away, and some goes as far as to commit suicide. My point is that there is a right and wrong way for a starship Captain to handle their depression. I do not think that a Captain locking herself away in her quarters is the proper way to handle it. It also seemed like Janeway had locked herself away for a while. Voyager had already been in the Void for two months when that episode airs and I wonder how much of that time she spent in her quarters (though I don't think she spent the whole two months there). She was neglecting Staff meetings, she didn't want to see people (Chakotay tells Seven not to go to Janeway's quarters to report to her), and will not spend time with her first officer (who suggests the holodeck to try to help her relax).

Yes, she helped out when the ship had a power failure, but still doesn't negate the fact that she had been dealing with her depression while in the Void in a manner unbecoming of a Starfleet captain.

 

[Michael]

Yes, she helped out when the ship had a power failure, but still doesn't negate the fact that she had been dealing with her depression while in the Void in a manner unbecoming of a Starfleet captain.

Well, wasn't that the point? That she's behaving in an unbecoming manner for a Starfleet captain. I liked that she had flaws. That made her human. It made the series (and the situation of a stranded ship) way more believable.

 

[AuntKate]

Yes, she helped out when the ship had a power failure, but still doesn't negate the fact that she had been dealing with her depression while in the Void in a manner unbecoming of a Starfleet captain.

Well, wasn't that the point? That she's behaving in an unbecoming manner for a Starfleet captain. I liked that she had flaws. That made her human. It made the series (and the situation of a stranded ship) way more believable.

Plus, she'd spent four long years as a full-time Starfleet captain. She needed a break, and there was no place for her to go to get one. Apparently, the Void was a very dull spot with little happening. She took advantage of that to get away. I think it would be normal to need time away, and I think, as Chakotay said, she can run the ship fine (under routine circumstances) from her quarters and with minimal contact with the crew.

As I said before, she managed to work her way through it--which is what really counts. And, if I may be so bold, I don't think she was "crazy" from that point on, either. But that's my humble opinion!

 

[Ro_Laren]

Yes, she helped out when the ship had a power failure, but still doesn't negate the fact that she had been dealing with her depression while in the Void in a manner unbecoming of a Starfleet captain.

Well, wasn't that the point? That she's behaving in an unbecoming manner for a Starfleet captain. I liked that she had flaws. That made her human. It made the series (and the situation of a stranded ship) way more believable.

Yes it is the point! As I said in my first post, this was one of her worst moments as a Captain.

Yes, she helped out when the ship had a power failure, but still doesn't negate the fact that she had been dealing with her depression while in the Void in a manner unbecoming of a Starfleet captain.

Well, wasn't that the point? That she's behaving in an unbecoming manner for a Starfleet captain. I liked that she had flaws. That made her human. It made the series (and the situation of a stranded ship) way more believable.

Plus, she'd spent four long years as a full-time Starfleet captain. She needed a break, and there was no place for her to go to get one. Apparently, the Void was a very dull spot with little happening. She took advantage of that to get away. I think it would be normal to need time away, and I think, as Chakotay said, she can run the ship fine (under routine circumstances) from her quarters and with minimal contact with the crew.

As I said before, she managed to work her way through it--which is what really counts. And, if I may be so bold, I don't think she was "crazy" from that point on, either. But that's my humble opinion!

Well, they did stop at different planets to take shore leave. That is when the crew should rest and relax. Perhaps Janeway did allow the crew to "take shore leave" on the ship while they were travelling along toward the Alpha Quadrant. But, if that were the case then she should have told the crew "okay, I'm taking my "shore leave" on the ship for a couple weeks. Everything is cool, but I'm going to rest and relax in my quarters. Please leave me be!" However, from the tone and conversations of the Senior Staff it doesn't appear that this is what she did.

BTW, AuntKate I didn't think she was crazy from that point on either. I also never understood why people think she is bipolar- that she acts one way in one episode and another in the next. I never saw it, but perhaps I just didn't notice it. I don't know...

 

[salley]

Never having watched voyager first time round I've just treated myself to the DVD's. I was intruged by this thread so skipped ahead to watch it.

If I had been Chakotay I would have told her that either she was Captain and she acted like one or she gave up her command and let him do it. I'm sure he could have got the doctors backing for this, she was obviously ill. Someone earlier said the ship wasn't in danger - but it was. The moral was rock
bottom and they needed strong leadership then more than ever.

 

[Malcom]

It would have worked better with some lead up, such as hearing her record some captain's logs in which she expresses her guilt, frustration, etc.

 

[Kegek]

^
I think the issue was adequately covered in the episode, such logs would be repeating the point and breaking the suspense of her absence, IMHO.

 

[exodus]

Yes, she helped out when the ship had a power failure, but still doesn't negate the fact that she had been dealing with her depression while in the Void in a manner unbecoming of a Starfleet captain.

Well, wasn't that the point? That she's behaving in an unbecoming manner for a Starfleet captain. I liked that she had flaws. That made her human. It made the series (and the situation of a stranded ship) way more believable.

Yes it is the point! As I said in my first post, this was one of her worst moments as a Captain.

Well, wasn't that the point? That she's behaving in an unbecoming manner for a Starfleet captain. I liked that she had flaws. That made her human. It made the series (and the situation of a stranded ship) way more believable.

Plus, she'd spent four long years as a full-time Starfleet captain. She needed a break, and there was no place for her to go to get one. Apparently, the Void was a very dull spot with little happening. She took advantage of that to get away. I think it would be normal to need time away, and I think, as Chakotay said, she can run the ship fine (under routine circumstances) from her quarters and with minimal contact with the crew.

As I said before, she managed to work her way through it--which is what really counts. And, if I may be so bold, I don't think she was "crazy" from that point on, either. But that's my humble opinion!

Well, they did stop at different planets to take shore leave. That is when the crew should rest and relax. Perhaps Janeway did allow the crew to "take shore leave" on the ship while they were travelling along toward the Alpha Quadrant. But, if that were the case then she should have told the crew "okay, I'm taking my "shore leave" on the ship for a couple weeks. Everything is cool, but I'm going to rest and relax in my quarters. Please leave me be!" However, from the tone and conversations of the Senior Staff it doesn't appear that this is what she did.

BTW, AuntKate I didn't think she was crazy from that point on either. I also never understood why people think she is bipolar- that she acts one way in one episode and another in the next. I never saw it, but perhaps I just didn't notice it. I don't know...

Janeway still has responsiblities to her ship & crew during shore leave. Notice that during most crew shore leave she still remains in her office. Being alone in foreign terratory, true relaxation is a luxury Janeway can barely afford. It's also why she so desperately and readily clung to Michael the holographic lover upon creation. She needed an outlet, someone/anyone that could shoulder the burden that wasn't one of her crew.

 

[kimc]

Janeway still has responsiblities to her ship & crew during shore leave. Notice that during most crew shore leave she still remains in her office. Being alone in foreign terratory, true relaxation is a luxury Janeway can barely afford. It's also why she so desperately and readily clung to Michael the holographic lover upon creation. She needed an outlet, someone/anyone that could shoulder the burden that wasn't one of her crew.

However in one episode (I think it was "Someone To Watch Over Me") she left the ship completely for her shore leave. Sure, she was available when they called her back but until then there wasn't much she had to do with the ship while gone.

 

[exodus]

Janeway still has responsiblities to her ship & crew during shore leave. Notice that during most crew shore leave she still remains in her office. Being alone in foreign terratory, true relaxation is a luxury Janeway can barely afford. It's also why she so desperately and readily clung to Michael the holographic lover upon creation. She needed an outlet, someone/anyone that could shoulder the burden that wasn't one of her crew.

However in one episode (I think it was "Someone To Watch Over Me") she left the ship completely for her shore leave. Sure, she was available when they called her back but until then there wasn't much she had to do with the ship while gone.

Frankly, I think "Night" also makes Chakotay look bad as a first officer. It doesn't reflect well on him that he can't keep the ships moral up during the Captains "absence". It shows the crew doesn't bond with him and has no confidence in his ability as a leader.

The ep. does more of a diservice to him than Janeway, IMO.