Spock's not going to talk to Kirk because he talked smack to save his ship?
What's he going to do about McCoy who constantly talks smack about Vulcans for practically no reason at all?
What did Burnham do to Spock?
- Thread starter Succubint
- Start date
What's he going to do about McCoy who constantly talks smack about Vulcans for practically no reason at all?
Out of the main crew, he only talks to Checkov. And Leslie.
But only on every third Wedneday.
Oh man, I love Burnham and I 100% get why she did what she did, but god damn, seeing baby spock get his little heart broken by his big sister made me tear up. The look on his little schmoopy face killed me.
My feeling is that Spock never stopped loving his big sister and still does and that is why he is still mad at Burnham all these years later.
My feeling is that Spock never stopped loving his big sister and still does and that is why he is still mad at Burnham all these years later.
But your son isn't half Vulcan...
What did Burnham do to Spock?
This: "You belong in a circus, Spock, not a starship - right next to the dog-faced boy."
This is why it worked so well on Spock years later when Kirk said the exact same thing. It triggered a Vulcan flashback and, man, that is something you never want to do (as Kirk went on to find out).
This: "You belong in a circus, Spock, not a starship - right next to the dog-faced boy."
This is why it worked so well on Spock years later when Kirk said the exact same thing. It triggered a Vulcan flashback and, man, that is something you never want to do (as Kirk went on to find out).
Hearing something mean as a child from a sibling is a lot harder than from a friend as an adult.
I've been having trouble with the timeline, but this incident was very closely after Burnham was almost killed by the logic extremists right? After she was only saved by Sarek placing part of his katra in her?
So she's still recovering from near death and not exactly in her right state of mind. Also, while I know this probably wasn't the writers' intentions, couldn't those lines have been Sarek's katra talking (with Michael's brain still unable to process having this partial katra)? Being cruel to "logically" save Spock? I mean, this is the guy who said "How human" upon Spock's birth...
What I predicted below in page 1 of this thread is exactly what happened:
)
The way the incident was presented before now was implied to be so horrifying that Burnham couldn't even tell Amanda. And they continued that thread with her reluctance to tell the Talosians, leading to anticipation of an act so horrifying that didn't remotely match what we actually got.
Plus, Burnham failing to tell Amanda let Amanda's imagination run wild to assume the worst, leading Amanda to shut Burnham out of the search for Spock. Honestly, Burnham should have said, "I called him a weird little half breed incapable of love," and Amanda would have said, "And...?" . Burnham: "That's it." After that, Amanda, while ticked off, probably would have let Burnham stay involved in the search. Unlike what actually happened.
And at least Burnham was sorry about it and apologized for it (and Spock knew that for some time since he told her "I'm not here to absolve you," right from the start). You're lucky if you get that in the real world these days. My own parents and brother have told me worse things than Burnham did and either refused to apologize for it or outright gaslighted me and said they didn't say it (either because they genuinely forgot or because verbal cruelty is just so common to them it runs together). Probably why at 35 years old my relationship with my parents isn't as solid as it could be.
The rumors are that Berg and Harberts were fired over verbal abuse to the Discovery writing staff, so I wouldn't be surprised if Discovery's writers themselves heard worse things said to them than what Burnham said to Spock.
Sad to say, by real world standards what Burnham said to Spock was mild (and I'm not saying what she said was ok, but one need look no further than the news to see that real world discourse is far more cruel and brutal
)The way the incident was presented before now was implied to be so horrifying that Burnham couldn't even tell Amanda. And they continued that thread with her reluctance to tell the Talosians, leading to anticipation of an act so horrifying that didn't remotely match what we actually got.
Plus, Burnham failing to tell Amanda let Amanda's imagination run wild to assume the worst, leading Amanda to shut Burnham out of the search for Spock. Honestly, Burnham should have said, "I called him a weird little half breed incapable of love," and Amanda would have said, "And...?" . Burnham: "That's it." After that, Amanda, while ticked off, probably would have let Burnham stay involved in the search. Unlike what actually happened.
And at least Burnham was sorry about it and apologized for it (and Spock knew that for some time since he told her "I'm not here to absolve you," right from the start). You're lucky if you get that in the real world these days. My own parents and brother have told me worse things than Burnham did and either refused to apologize for it or outright gaslighted me and said they didn't say it (either because they genuinely forgot or because verbal cruelty is just so common to them it runs together). Probably why at 35 years old my relationship with my parents isn't as solid as it could be.
The rumors are that Berg and Harberts were fired over verbal abuse to the Discovery writing staff, so I wouldn't be surprised if Discovery's writers themselves heard worse things said to them than what Burnham said to Spock.
It was about 8am and I had only one cup of coffee at that time, forgive me ;pdealt
I know, I know, but it's the College English Major in me.
From Memory Alpha--
This continued while Spock served on the USS Enterprise, during which Dr. Leonard McCoy referred to him, as, among other things, "pointy eared", "green blooded", and a "hobgoblin." This was done more due to McCoy's frustrations with Spock himself than any real dislike of the Vulcan people, and sometimes even as friendly jibes or even nicknames. While Spock generally appeared to be immune to the insults, one time Spock temporarily lost his emotional control and reacted with anger to McCoy's words, to the point of lifting McCoy up against the wall by his throat.
Spock should have just left the recorder on his communicator or tricorder on all the time, then sent the whole audio of McCoy's speciest remarks to the ship's counselor or ethics department, at which point they drag McCoy off for ethics training.
This continued while Spock served on the USS Enterprise, during which Dr. Leonard McCoy referred to him, as, among other things, "pointy eared", "green blooded", and a "hobgoblin." This was done more due to McCoy's frustrations with Spock himself than any real dislike of the Vulcan people, and sometimes even as friendly jibes or even nicknames. While Spock generally appeared to be immune to the insults, one time Spock temporarily lost his emotional control and reacted with anger to McCoy's words, to the point of lifting McCoy up against the wall by his throat.
Spock should have just left the recorder on his communicator or tricorder on all the time, then sent the whole audio of McCoy's speciest remarks to the ship's counselor or ethics department, at which point they drag McCoy off for ethics training.
Except, everybody deals differently with familial conflict...What I predicted below in page 1 of this thread is exactly what happened:
Sad to say, by real world standards what Burnham said to Spock was mild (and I'm not saying what she said was ok, but one need look no further than the news to see that real world discourse is far more cruel and brutal
The way the incident was presented before now was implied to be so horrifying that Burnham couldn't even tell Amanda. And they continued that thread with her reluctance to tell the Talosians, leading to anticipation of an act so horrifying that didn't remotely match what we actually got.
Plus, Burnham failing to tell Amanda let Amanda's imagination run wild to assume the worst, leading Amanda to shut Burnham out of the search for Spock. Honestly, Burnham should have said, "I called him a weird little half breed incapable of love," and Amanda would have said, "And...?" . Burnham: "That's it." After that, Amanda, while ticked off, probably would have let Burnham stay involved in the search. Unlike what actually happened.
And at least Burnham was sorry about it and apologized for it (and Spock knew that for some time since he told her "I'm not here to absolve you," right from the start). You're lucky if you get that in the real world these days. My own parents and brother have told me worse things than Burnham did and either refused to apologize for it or outright gaslighted me and said they didn't say it (either because they genuinely forgot or because verbal cruelty is just so common to them it runs together). Probably why at 35 years old my relationship with my parents isn't as solid as it could be.
The rumors are that Berg and Harberts were fired over verbal abuse to the Discovery writing staff, so I wouldn't be surprised if Discovery's writers themselves heard worse things said to them than what Burnham said to Spock.
Some will just shrug it off in their adult years to a certain extent, others will carry with them their whole lives and be deeply affected by it.
I see this in my own relationship with my family (the former) and my significant other's with hers (the latter).
I have found that it comes down to ones strength of will and self interest.
The balance of which can leave you more resilient to life's woes or a complete basket case, with most folks falling somewhere in the middle.
agreed that Bones is case of workspace harassment that Starfleet's HR should have dealt with a long time ago.
I find it gets harder in adulthood than it is as a kid. As a kid, you think everything your parents say is truth and you must have done something wrong to deserve getting yelled at.Except, everybody deals differently with familial conflict...
Some will just shrug it off in their adult years to a certain extent, others will carry with them their whole lives and be deeply affected by it.
I see this in my own relationship with my family (the former) and my significant other's with hers (the latter).
I have found that it comes down to ones strength of will and self interest.
The balance of which can leave you more resilient to life's woes or a complete basket case, with most folks falling somewhere in the middle.
As an adult, you realize that a lot of times they are yelling for no reason at all. You know from adult years of experience that the world they showed you as a kid is not what you actually faced when you hit the real, working world. And you realize that their yelling isn't due to anything you did wrong (when you have a successful job, clean record, good reputation among people) and is due to their own inability to rise above habits of pettiness and anger management.
And those are sad realizations to have that I never could have comprehended as a kid.
And then you become a parent, and see the other side of it. Sometimes you totally lose you shit about something one of your children does because it's just annoying you, or you had a bad day. But you know that even though this is the case, it doesn't change the love you have for them. So you calm down and apologize/give them a hug.
You have no idea what my family life is like. Things didn't end with a hug, and suffering inflicted lasted for years at great permanent cost to my physical and emotional health.
To be fair, after marrying my wife has done what she could to help me, and that's a great credit to her.
When your own brother says, "Why don't you just kill yourself" and refuses to apologize for it after you are having personal difficulties with permanent tinnitus (William Shatner says he personally struggled with suicidal thoughts due to his tinnitus, and I actually think mine is worse than his). And pushes you. And he says he's "Telling it like it is" and uses the president's twitter tone to back up his words.
And your own parents back your brother up. Imagine that level of cruelty. Imagine your own mother laughing at your wife in a restaurant (and refuses to apologize for it afterwards) and your wife crying afterwards and you have to comfort her.
Don't pull this "You'll be a parent and do the same thing." Maybe I'll have rough times, maybe even lasting years, but there are things my parents have said and done that I would just. never. do.
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The interpretations of the events the audience were imagining are often what children do to themselves after such things. Children internalize things a lot more than adults realized.
