What Could They have Done?

[J.C. England]

How very SAD SAD SAD that Paramount has had
eleven chances to bring the fans a great Trek movie
....and has failed each time.
Don't get me wrong, some of the movies are great
movies, some are okay movies, and some are just
down right pitiful movies. But to me, the best Trek
shows and ideas came from the stories where the
crew actually did discover "strange new worlds"
and "new civilizations". The movies, unfortunately,
turned out to be a rehashing of old villains (Khan),
stealing starships, time travel to "save the whales",
stealing starships finding God at the center of the
galaxy, rehashing old villains (the Borg), discovering
the "fountain of youth", fighting a renegade Reman/Human (Shinzon), and fighting a renegade Romulan (Nero).

I know it's impossible to please all the Trekkers all the
time, but couldn't they have JUST ONCE created an
original story for a movie? Or am I being too critical?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Originality has rarely been a Star Trek trademark.

 

[sonak]

you lament that none of the movies involve finding "strange new worlds," etc. but you also include TFF as one that didn't as well. This is just wrong.

TMP and TFF are by far not my favorite Trek films, but they were among the few that actually involved exploring or encountering a new world or new life-form and you brush over them.


You're right that most involved fighting a villain and dealing with a threat, but I think that after TMP they figured going the action movie route was safer to bring in the bucks.


Though TVH was another "experimental" one that went in a different direction.

 

[anaya]

So, what is the matter guys?

 

[22 Stars]

Yes, you are being too critical. SFS and TVH are pretty original in many ways. Spock is dead (which really didn't happen much on TOS) and all the events that spring directly from that are pretty original to Trek. The Resurrection and then the fish out of water concepts aren't new, but they are done refreshingly well.

 

[The Dominion]

OP strikes me as being a poem due to its shape.

Anyway, don't you be knockin' WoK so easy son. And you didn't even mention TUC.

Besides, doesn't TMP meet your criteria for quality enough? It was essentially an elongated episode which focused on exploration very well.

And another thing: You demand originality, but then bash the movies for not being enough like TOS? Go check your reasoning.

 

[RoJoHen]

So, what is the matter guys?

You're not real.

 

[milo bloom]

Despite it's flaws in execution, The Final Frontier attempted to go after some pretty heady ideas. Facing God? Facing an estranged brother? And if you don't get at least a lump in your throat during McCoy's flashback, there's something wrong with you.


And as noted: TMP was basically an extended episode and also had some interesting concepts. The Voyage Home was a very experimental concept (and I think they pulled it off, too).

The big problem with the TNG movies is that really only First Contact used it's broader canvass to any effect. INS was an extended ep of the show, and NEM was just a bad idea all around. I have a soft spot for GEN, but I admit it squandered it's chance to give us a Kirk vs. Picard showdown.

 

[The Dominion]

The best Trek movies are the ones that used something from the series.

TMP - Was basically a sequel/reference to The Changeling from TOS.

WoK - Brought back an awesome villain from TOS.

TVH - Used the "slingshot around the sun" time travel method from TOS.

TUC - Concluded the Klingon arc from all the conflicts they had with the Federation in TOS.

First Contact - Had the Borg from TNG, and brought back Cochrane from TOS.


Then we have:

TSFS - Not really connected to TOS in a big way, but it is connected to the previous movie so I guess it's acceptable.

TFF - Had nothing to do with anything, except vaguely being related to the outer rim barrier that was seen in one of the pilots of TOS. Other than that, Sybok and fake god were pulled straight from the writers arses and will never be referenced again.

GEN - It does relate to Guinan, and has references to Lore's emotion chip and the Duras sisters, but everything else is stupid as crap.

INS - It does build off some TNG context, but there's nothing too major there and it's just kind of its own episode.

And for the grand finale: Nemesis - It DOES actually have a good theoretical premise, as far as having a TNG movie with the Romulans, since they had some big stories in the series. Heck, they had even left Spock on Romulus in the series. And bringing back Lore for the movie where Data dies would have been epic.

But none of that happened, did it? Instead we got a weak story that replaced the Romulans with purple cave vampires, B4 instead of Lore, and the main villain was a Bondesque evil clone of Picard whose plot made no sense. And it didn't use the opportunity to bring in Spock or even Sela from TNG.

 

[sonak]

The best Trek movies are the ones that used something from the series.

TMP - Was basically a sequel/reference to The Changeling from TOS.

WoK - Brought back an awesome villain from TOS.

TVH - Used the "slingshot around the sun" time travel method from TOS.

TUC - Concluded the Klingon arc from all the conflicts they had with the Federation in TOS.

First Contact - Had the Borg from TNG, and brought back Cochrane from TOS.


Then we have:

TSFS - Not really connected to TOS in a big way, but it is connected to the previous movie so I guess it's acceptable.

TFF - Had nothing to do with anything, except vaguely being related to the outer rim barrier that was seen in one of the pilots of TOS. Other than that, Sybok and fake god were pulled straight from the writers arses and will never be referenced again.

GEN - It does relate to Guinan, and has references to Lore's emotion chip and the Duras sisters, but everything else is stupid as crap.

INS - It does build off some TNG context, but there's nothing too major there and it's just kind of its own episode.

And for the grand finale: Nemesis - It DOES actually have a good theoretical premise, as far as having a TNG movie with the Romulans, since they had some big stories in the series. Heck, they had even left Spock on Romulus in the series. And bringing back Lore for the movie where Data dies would have been epic.

But none of that happened, did it? Instead we got a weak story that replaced the Romulans with purple cave vampires, B4 instead of Lore, and the main villain was a Bondesque evil clone of Picard whose plot made no sense. And it didn't use the opportunity to bring in Spock or even Sela from TNG.

I think this is a bit contrived. You fudge with TVH and TFF to make your "pattern" work: The time-travel method in TVH is not connected to its success as a movie, and TFF borrows A LOT from TOS' "the way to eden."

 

[The Dominion]

Sure, TVH was the oddity of the bunch, but it worked anyway. But reusing a dumb plot from one of the episodes with new characters in a new context I wasn't inclined to count. Besides, I said TFF did have a reference to the series, but the main points like Sybok, rocket boots and Fake God where made up on the spot.

Actually, I guess Fake God could be seen as something along the lines of the plot of Who Mourns for Adonis, but again, it's its own vague thing instead of an actual reference that was done well.

Perhaps TFF should have gone for something more relevant to the series or the other movies instead of making nonsense.

 

[J.C. England]

Very interesting points. That's why I brought it up.
No intention of offending anyone here... Just wish
Paramount had demanded better for the ticket price.

I guess I may have read too many of the really
GREAT Trek novels and wish they had created
a movie from one of those... Of course, that's
probably another thread to start (unless there
already is one).

 

[The Dominion]

Well, they are a pretty big mixed bag. Out of all ten, only three would I consider truly great movies (TMP,WoK, TUC.) And out of those, TMP is a further mixed bag because of how hard it is to watch due to its droning cinematography.

TVH was good, but I wouldn't really say as great as the others. TSFS is mediocre, but it has its place between WoK and TUC. First Contact is good, but there are several things I didn't like and wish they could have done completely different about it. INS I also enjoy because I think it had the best direction of the TNG movies, and its story fells like it's almost decent. But it comes up pretty short overall.

The rest are complete misses in my opinion.

 

[A Little Otter]

I don't find it SAD, SAD, SAD at all because even with varying quality of the films, audiences were entertained eleven times. What your concept of a great film is evidently differs from most Trek fans. You could say the same thing about the fact that the producers had six chances of making great TV series (including the animated show). For that matter, how many movies in general are released every year and how many of those are "great"?

The Trek films have done a good job of offering various aspects of what makes Star Trek what it is. Sometimes it's about exploring new worlds, sometimes it's about fighting a villain, sometimes it's human tragedy, and sometimes it's goofy comedy. There's futuristic adventure, technological speculation, politics, commentary on contemporary issues. All of these things have been developed in one way or another in the eleven movies, though not in the same movie. That's why it's nice to have a series of films that are different from each other in plot, tone, and even genre. If one movie doesn't do it for you, one of the others might.

 

[7thsealord]

Bear in mind that for movie-makers the only thing that truly matters is bums on seats. Some people might sneer about this, but professional movie-making (and the merchandising thereof) is, like a lot of things, ultimately about the money.

Artistic integrity doesn't pay the mortgage, folks.

Certainly, keeping fans happy so that enough hang in with a specific franchise is helpful towards this end. But, given the diversity and sheer cussedness of certain fangroups (ahem!), any movie getting half or more of the franchise fanbase "mostly" approving of it is a major achievment in itself.

So, could a lot of Trek movies have been done "better" one way or another? Unquestionably. But a very big question for those making said movies is how much money is available to be spent (on re-writes, delays, "improvements", etc.) and how much will this benefit the bottom line?

 

[J.C. England]

7thsealord brings out a good point I missed, and
it's about the props used in the movies - The phasers,
communicators, and tricorders changed time after
time. Apparently a way to sell toys (which brings
Paramount & CBS a lot of money, I'm sure). Thank
goodness the uniforms had some sort of
consistency... The phasers & wrist communicator
in TMP would have worked in all the rest...IMO.