People use the word lazy too much around here when it comes to writing they have no appreciation for.
What continuity errors are there on Voyager?
- Thread starter Luther Sloan
- Start date
As we are often told in TrekLit by Janeway fans, VOY had many fans who never saw TOS, TAS, TOS movies, TNG or DS9.
The line explaining the Borg baby going down to the planet with the Borg kids was cut for time/budget before filming. Babies are expensive actors. It was obviously a plot thread they originally threw in, thinking someone might follow up in the handful of Borg kids stories they did. It's hardly the worst dangling plot thread in ST. (In your life, don't you have a few plot threads dangling?)
It's cloaked. And a secret. Shhhh.
Moya from Farscape, refresh my memory but she was a living ship. And as such could heal damage naturally.
Now being that MOya is a living starship, for all I know she can rapidly heal herself leaving no visible sign that she has been damaged. Just because an injur might scar a human it does not follow that an alien being will also be scarred by an injury. Could they have shown it occuring more naturally over a period of episodes perhaps.
Perhaps part of the reason why Farscape might not get as many critisims as Voyager is that it tried to put new spins on stories, instead of playing it safe which VOY did more often than not.
I could critise DSN for it's orginal depection of the Vorta have telekenetic powersm than dropping it. Seemingly having long range transporters. For the former we later learn that the Vorta have been genetically altered so perhaps that particular Vorta had been altered in that way. But thats trying to draw conclusions based on inferences from later episodes. It's still called a plot hole.
As someone has already posted comments from behind the scenes people of the show they wanted it to be, it's not the viewers fault if they start to critisie them for not delivering it.
If you show a gun on the wall with eight rounds next to it, and later use it within your story. Your audiance will expect eight shots. Unless you see/mention extra rounds. So which is worse? :-
A.>Showing/Stating I only have eight rounds and only using eight rounds or
B.>Using 16 rounds despite me earlier saying I only have eight rounds.
Now being that MOya is a living starship, for all I know she can rapidly heal herself leaving no visible sign that she has been damaged. Just because an injur might scar a human it does not follow that an alien being will also be scarred by an injury. Could they have shown it occuring more naturally over a period of episodes perhaps.
Perhaps part of the reason why Farscape might not get as many critisims as Voyager is that it tried to put new spins on stories, instead of playing it safe which VOY did more often than not.
I could critise DSN for it's orginal depection of the Vorta have telekenetic powersm than dropping it. Seemingly having long range transporters. For the former we later learn that the Vorta have been genetically altered so perhaps that particular Vorta had been altered in that way. But thats trying to draw conclusions based on inferences from later episodes. It's still called a plot hole.
As someone has already posted comments from behind the scenes people of the show they wanted it to be, it's not the viewers fault if they start to critisie them for not delivering it.
If you show a gun on the wall with eight rounds next to it, and later use it within your story. Your audiance will expect eight shots. Unless you see/mention extra rounds. So which is worse? :-
A.>Showing/Stating I only have eight rounds and only using eight rounds or
B.>Using 16 rounds despite me earlier saying I only have eight rounds.
I'm just a realist. There's far too much idiocy and repetition in this thread for me to handle. No one is going to convince either party to agree with them. As far as some are concerned on here, Voyager was practically a flawless show and the only mistakes it made were when drawing up the premise of the show and everything after was inevitable.
I'm going to call bullshit on that.
They may not have watched DS9 or TOS but I find it hard to believe that many of those watching Voy. didn't watch TNG.
Where did you come by this info, if you don't mind me asking?
They never used a real baby.
It was a puppet.
Word!!
It has more to do with Farscape never saying things like "We can't make more torpedoes", in fact they never explained how anything in Farscape worked because it allowed the writers to do anything without having to explain any processes. Random stuff just happened all the time with no explanation beyond "This is what today's plot is, deal with it!"
If you want my honest opinion, I think they never should have said that they couldn't make more torpedoes and never bothered limiting themselves like that. Things like how many weapons they have, or how many shuttles they have should not have been mentioned.
It sure is considering it's a complete misquote.
Perhaps, but it's not much of a misrepresentation.
Maybe I should have avoided the negative connotations of "Are you denying..." and said "Aren't you aware..." instead. If you've been defending their decision, it stands to reason that you are already aware that it was in fact their decision and so, naturally, already aware of of the source.
Anyway, the interview with Ron Moore was just posted in this thread. I think his descriptions of the disagreements he had qualifies as an official source.
I hope at any point now, some VOY fans will pipe up here and say true, they were/are fans of VOY only. There are certainly some amongst the Janeway fanfic groups, and several of my Trek friends here in Sydney are totally ignorant of TNG, and watch only VOY and sometimes ENT.
Every episode of every ST show is someone's first ever episode of "Star Trek".
Maybe it was different in USA, but TNG really only got one decent run on TV once, and only about a season of eps in prime time. New people discovering DS9, VOY or ENT on late-night TV had to go to a video store and rent TOS or TNG if they were curious.
There were interviews on the 'Net, with fans asking "Where was the Borg baby?" after "Collective", and at least one reply from the production team that it had been scripted in "Imperfection" that the baby would be joining Mezotti, Rebi and Azan, but dropped for lack of time/budget. I think I also heard it at a convention via Richard Arnold. I don't have my "Voyager Companion" handy. Is it in that?
Googling only found this:
"Last-minute update: Brannon Braga now tells us that the Borg baby was returned to its people off-screen — a predictably cheap workaround."
http://www.trektoday.com/reviews/Imperfection.shtml
And yes, I know the baby was a puppet the first/only time we saw it, but after several months they could hardly use the same newborn puppet. So... budget would require a whole new puppet or an actor baby with light gel prosthetics and a studio nanny, all for a fleeting scene that most of the audience couldn't recall the purpose of.
What the hell is a Farscape?
I don't understand why Voy fans can't accept that its ship might possibly be able to do the same thing. Maybe not naturally, but technologically, at least until that cleaning/healing subsystem is itself damaged. Pretty sure any engineer building a 24th century Roomba can build a system that reads ship blueprints and is capable of filling in any holes.Up The Long Ladder
RIKER: That isn't necessary. The ship will clean itself.
BRENNA: Well, good for the bloody ship. (long pause as she appraises him) Tell me, Commander Riker, where does a girl go to wash her feet on this ship?
The worst is showing a character repeatedly racking the slide for dramatic effect but never firing and never losing a round from it. ST's provided its example that stupidity in DS9's Past Tense episode. ugh
^ They screwed up and never fixed it for 6 years. That's all it comes down to. I chalk it up to a first season mistake that they never realized or just never cared. But a large number of fans did. Someone can say they assumed the audience is intelligent and provided their own solution, but that's frankly bad writing. To say one thing then show another is nothing other than a lie. Lying to your audience rarely has a good outcome imo. Almost no shows or movies pull it off successfully.
The combination of that one-liner the The Cloud and the premise of "Janeway is a wilderness captain stuck in the middle of no where" created a problem the writers chose not to deal with. They were too rigid to simply let Voyager make trade or salvage a bunch of crap they might find useful later. IMO, they set themselves up with the perfect opportunity in The Thaw but didn't capitalize (pardon the pun) on it on screen.
Most audiences would have easily believed salvage missions or trading for weapons that weren't up to par with photon torpedoes. Cause if we learned anything about long journeys from Oregon Trail, you eat bear before you starve to death.
According to Wikipedia, there's in total been 105 Smurf characters who have been seen on the small and large screen. But the movie continuity is different to the tv continuity and they got lost in space/time during the last season after using a magic spinning top, and "materialized" in different countries all over the world at random trying to get home, where/when they visited a new ethnically shaded Smurf Village (And Gargamel) each week...
But supposedly there were 100 Smurfs billeted in the village as of the pilot, and the 90 something Smurfs we met gradually over the next 10 years had all been there in the pilot clinging to he shadows like wallflowers trying not to be eaten by that ginger supremacist moggie.
But supposedly there were 100 Smurfs billeted in the village as of the pilot, and the 90 something Smurfs we met gradually over the next 10 years had all been there in the pilot clinging to he shadows like wallflowers trying not to be eaten by that ginger supremacist moggie.
Ok, so after watching 7 years of TNG and Voy, we don't know replicators are tied into the transporters?It sure is considering it's a complete misquote.
Perhaps, but it's not much of a misrepresentation.
They showed in "the Cloud" they can farm anti-matter from nebulas.
We know the ship can land, we've seen it a few times.
We've seen the ship getting its warp coils changed in "nightingale" but we still question how the ship is repaired?
We've seen "Dark Frontier", heard Neelix say that debris can be broken down for energy for the ship, yet we still don't know where material comes from?
We seen them build the Delta Flyer and we still question why they still have shuttles?
We seen them trade for weapons in "Retrospect", we seen both Harry & B'Elanna have vast knowledge of how torpedos work & designed from both "Dreadnaut" & "Warhead"., yet we still question where now torpedos come from?
All these things are within the show itself regardless of what order you watch it in. I've even given the episode(s) in which it was seen or said. I'm not saying the show didn't have it's flaws but some of the complaints fans have come from not paying attention.
Last edited:
That's actually pretty damn accurate to be fair.
I don't see why you think you've made a point. What you did was give examples of the problems and tried to pass each off as a solution to the problem.
Your list might as well have gone something like this:
- We've seen that they keep getting new material, yet we still have a problem with them keeping getting new material.
- We've seen them popping out shuttle after shuttle, yet we still have a problem with them popping out shuttle after shuttle.
- We've seen them producing hundreds of torpedoes, yet we still have a problem with them producing hundreds of torpedoes.
Well, yeah, those are all definitely true statements. Voyager has believability issues, therefore we say Voyager has believability issues.
Ok, so after watching 7 years of TNG and Voy, we don't know replicators are tied into the transporters?It sure is considering it's a complete misquote.
Perhaps, but it's not much of a misrepresentation.
They showed in "the Cloud" they can farm anti-matter from nebulas.
We know the ship can land, we've seen it a few times.
We've seen the ship getting its warp coils changed in "nightingale" but we still question how the ship is repaired?
We've seen "Dark Frontier", heard Neelix say that debris can be broken down for energy for the ship, yet we still don't know where material comes from?
We seen them build the Delta Flyer and we still question why they still have shuttles?
We seen them trade for weapons in "Retrospect", we seen both Harry & B'Elanna have vast knowledge of how torpedos work & designed from both "Dreadnaut" & "Warhead"., yet we still question where now torpedos come from?
All these things are within the show itself regardless of what order you watch it in. I've even given the episode(s) in which it was seen or said. I'm not saying the show didn't have it's flaws but some of the complaints fans have come from not paying attention.
The issue some have regarding the ship is not that it could be reapired, the fact is that at the begining of most episodes is was in pristine condition as if it had just left the construction yards. If you had showed a damaged ship over the course of say 18 episodes and it looking repaired the following episode. It isn't as hard to swallow that they managed to repair the ship inbetween episodes. Once every 18 or so episods is easier to believe than virtually inbetween episodes.
Replicators do consume energy you don't get something for nothing. So to turn a piece of debris into say a tri-corder. You have to consume energy to break it down, and then consume more energy to make the tri-corder.
As for the shuttles, It begins to stretch credability that they can simply churn out them out as easily as they appear to do.
The premise of the show in part was supposed to strip of them somewhat of what they took for granted. This could have made the show great had they tried to live up to the premise. For me what we got was a largely average show with a few flashes of greatness.
I'm sure from an aerial perspective, that I saw all these tiny people crawling over the ships hull in Nightingale pulling off hull plating and welding.
Ferengi?
So fans don't buy into the idea that Trek has such advanced and often magical technology and engineers that "turn rocks into replicators" and how it makes life easier? Science fiction, without the fiction.
Didn't they find ways to not only fix but extreme their power supply during the first 3 seasons? I even remember Seven showing another race how to build their own power generator to replicate too feed and power their ships.
Wasn't a good portion of the crew engineers?
From my understanding most casual viewers accept this is solved due to Trek's miracle tech., while die hards want science fact from fiction?
Sounds like life in general.
Similar threads
