What can be improved for season 2?

[Tuvix5675]

Vger23,
You're just making excuses for a series that DOES need improvement in several areas, including the one mentioned. We can disagree about the worst portrayal of Starfleet in any series, but you bring up isolated instances. I'm talking about how Starfleet is portrayed as a whole in Discovery.

 

[CorporalClegg]

But it's not "isolated" incidents. As a whole, SF has done a lot more bad than it has good. It's a pretty shitty organization when you get right down to it. Worse, it exists so under the guise and banner of "goodness" and altruism. Again, the whole core theme of Disco.

And I can't help but see the irony in that your avatar and pseudonym invoke one of the most heinous (and infamous) acts of evil in the franchise's entire history because the captain thought she was doing 'good.'

 

[Henoch]

I think the producers are trying to cater to the Anarchy-rules youth generation and not to the Law and Order baby boom generation. Youth sells. Hope is dead. Don't expect Season 2 to get more sunny with happy endings like Young Sheldon.

 

[Tuskin38]

I think the producers are trying to cater to the Anarchy-rules youth generation and not to the Law and Order baby boom generation. Youth sells. Hope is dead. Don't expect Season 2 to get more sunny with happy endings like Young Sheldon.

Yeah, no.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Is that the same 'law and order baby boom generation' that was in its teens and twenties during the mid-late 60s?

 

[Vger23]

Vger23,
You're just making excuses for a series that DOES need improvement in several areas, including the one mentioned. We can disagree about the worst portrayal of Starfleet in any series, but you bring up isolated instances. I'm talking about how Starfleet is portrayed as a whole in Discovery.

I'm not making excuses for anything. My laundry list of potential improvements is in this very thread,and it was fairly comprehensive. But holding the show to a criteria that the other shows or movies have never maintained isn't an "improvement" I'm expecting or hoping for.

And, quite frankly, one man's "improvement" is another man's "crap heap." Star Trek never drew me in on its used car salesman-like insistence about how it was all about "evolved humanity being noble and ethical." I like action, drama, and interesting characters. DSC delivers me what I want. If I want to watch people sitting peacefully in conference rooms talking about how to solve problems in a professional, antiseptic way...I'll go to work.

EDIT: and it's not "isolated incidents "...it's a clear pattern of behavior that reveals the reality behind the rhetoric.

 

[fireproof78]

But it's not "isolated" incidents. As a whole, SF has done a lot more bad than it has good. It's a pretty shitty organization when you get right down to it. Worse, it exists so under the guise and banner of "goodness" and altruism. Again, the whole core theme of Disco.

And I can't help but see the irony in that your avatar and pseudonym invoke one of the most heinous (and infamous) acts of evil in the franchise's entire history because the captain thought she was doing 'good.'

Precisely so. Starfleet is not as clean as this fanbase likes to make it out to be, and neither is the Federation.

Now, I understand that it rubs many the wrong way, as the hopeful and optimistic future is what is preferred for many and is part of Trek's appeal. I also get that the whole "I don't need dark and depressing" argument due to the current political climate. But, the other side of that is the simple fact that art imitates life.

Starfleet is not perfect and never was.

 

[Vger23]

Precisely so. Starfleet is not as clean as this fanbase likes to make it out to be, and neither is the Federation.

Now, I understand that it rubs many the wrong way, as the hopeful and optimistic future is what is preferred for many and is part of Trek's appeal. I also get that the whole "I don't need dark and depressing" argument due to the current political climate. But, the other side of that is the simple fact that art imitates life.

Starfleet is not perfect and never was.

More fundamentally, I don't find DSC dark and depressing. Does it have some heavier themes? Yes. Is it Black Mirror or The Leftovers? No.

 

[fireproof78]

More fundamentally, I don't find DSC dark and depressing. Does it have some heavier themes? Yes. Is it Black Mirror or The Leftovers? No.

Agreed, but I'm echoing the arguments I have seen.

 

[Vger23]

Agreed, but I'm echoing the arguments I have seen.

Oh, no...make no mistake...I knew where you were coming from!

 

[Nyotarules]

The portrayal of Starfleet is the worst of any Trek series, sure we’ve always had rogue Captains, Admirals, and Starfleet officers-but the organization as a whole in this series stinks. They conduct faceless tribunals in the dark (is this Cardassia or what?), have a death penalty for mutiny (what if its’ justified?), give Captains authoritarian prerogatives; don’t favor diplomacy to end wars, support genocide against other sentient species (Klingons), etc. What happened to democracy, the rights of the accused, human rights, peace, etc.? How is this a hopeful future with organizations like this version of Starfleet? They need to fix their portrayal of Starfleet big time, though now they'll have to explain the change to a more humanitarian version if they do it.

Human rights? Humanitarian? The very term is speciest...

 

[fireproof78]

Human rights? Humanitarian? The very term is speciest...

Inalienable...if only you could hear yourselves...human rights.

 

[Kane_Steel]

Less Burnham period would get my vote.

It's a shame there's so much divisiveness and apathy over Michael Boredom.

This was a great opportunity to have a compelling Black female lead of Star Trek, that likely won't ever come again... and they botched it. Sonequa is a mediocre actress that has no commanding presence, often outshined by the supporting cast. The Michael character is a really poor choice to be the central focus of the series, given how dull and devoid of charisma the character is. It doesn't make for entertaining television.

They really should have gone for an Danai Gurira or Viola Davis-type in their 40s and made her the Captain from the start. Someone who projects authority. We've seen Sonequa play commanding in the pilot episodes and the mirror ones... it was shit.

 

[PixelMagic]

They should honestly just work their way toward letting Sonequa play herself as a Starfleet officer basically. Michael Burnham is bar none the most boring Star Trek lead I've ever seen. Well, maybe better than Chakotay. However, Sonequa in interviews is positively charming and lovely. Just let her do that as Michael Burnham and it will improve ten fold.

Hand wave it as Burnham taking over the "emotional burden" from Spock this season via mind meld or something. Have her take away Spock's overhelming emotion, thereby opening her character up to be much more dynamic, shattering her Vulcan emotion suppression upbringing, and also restoring Spock to the stoic character we know from TOS. Problem solved.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

We can disagree about the worst portrayal of Starfleet in any series, but you bring up isolated instances. I'm talking about how Starfleet is portrayed as a whole in Discovery.

Considering Starfleet officers in the 24th century were willing to commit genocide, remove entire populations from planets to placate their enemies and be accessories to the murders of foreign politicians, I fail to see how the starfleet portrayed in discovery is any worse. I also fail to see why 24th century starfleet clearly gets a free pass.

 

[Search4]

I would like the ships in space to be a little lighter. When they were showing the Esophagus ship in season 1, it felt like I couldn’t see it clearly.

It’s hard to see the Esophagus clearly at all times.

I this is just an iPhone typo but we should definitely rename the main ship.

 

[Kane_Steel]

They should honestly just work their way toward letting Sonequa play herself as a Starfleet officer basically. Michael Burnham is bar none the most boring Star Trek lead I've ever seen. Well, maybe better than Chakotay. However, Sonequa in interviews is positively charming and lovely. Just let her do that as Michael Burnham and it will improve ten fold.

Hand wave it as Burnham taking over the "emotional burden" from Spock this season via mind meld or something. Have her take away Spock's overhelming emotion, thereby opening her character up to be much more dynamic, shattering her Vulcan emotion suppression upbringing, and also restoring Spock to the stoic character we know from TOS. Problem solved.

I agree that Beltran was quite one-note, but he wasn't the lead. Mulgrew was and she was fantastic. Very energetic and commanded the screen. Robert played off her energy really.

That's why the standalone Chakotay episodes without Janeway were boring as hell.

The only Trek leads I felt were really miscast as Sonequa, and..... this guy;

Bakula is a talented performer, but not the best fit for the role of a starship captain, and the show suffered for it.

 

[DaveyNY]

Captain Archer was a completely different breed from all the other Captains we'd seen up to that time.
(and was supposed to be)
It was a different time, Star Fleet Academy was still in its infancy when Archer graduated.
It was he and his ilk, that were were going to be making the ground rules out in space for future generations to follow.
(and trying to figure out, the best they could, what those ground rules should be)

It would have been completely incongruous for the character to have been portrayed in ways that would have seemed more like Kirk and such.
Archer was a Pioneer, not a seasoned starship Captain and as such was pretty much flying by the seat of his pants on most occasions.
That he managed to bring the NX-01 whole, back to Earth after many years of being out there, was as much because of his innate talent and skill as it was at times, complete Luck.

I think Bakula did a great job portraying the character.
(on the other hand, the writers many times dropped the ball)

 

[Vger23]

Captain Archer was a completely different breed from all the other Captains we'd seen up to that time.
(and was supposed to be)
It was a different time, Star Fleet Academy was still in its infancy when Archer graduated.
It was he and his ilk, that were were going to be making the ground rules out in space for future generations to follow.
(and trying to figure out, the best they could, what those ground rules should be)

It would have been completely incongruous for the character to have been portrayed in ways that would have seemed more like Kirk and such.
Archer was a Pioneer, not a seasoned starship Captain and as such was pretty much flying by the seat of his pants on most occasions.

I'm not a huge ENT fan, but I never understood the dislike for Archer or for Bakula's portrayal. I quite like both.

 

[fireproof78]

Captain Archer is a mixed bag for me, but I do like Bakula overall.