Well, when it's your book, you get the last word by definition. Which I suppose is why all the other main cast members of TOS except DeForest Kelley eventually wrote their own books.
What Are Your Top Five Books About TOS Production?
- Thread starter Thanos007
- Start date
Well, when it's your book, you get the last word by definition. Which I suppose is why all the other main cast members of TOS except DeForest Kelley eventually wrote their own books.
Inside Star Trek: The Real Story by Herb Solow and Bob Justman
The Making of Star Trek by Stephen E. Whitfield & Gene Roddenberry
Star Trek Sketchbook: The Original Series by Herbert F. Solow and Yvonne Fern Solow
[EDIT]
Star Trek: Lost Scenes by David Tilotta (@alchemist) and Curt McAloney.
[END EDIT]
Anything @Harvey eventually publishes
Pretty much this.
I'm a huge Scotty/Doohan fan (and Takei fan too) and yet I'm 100% with JQ (and Shatner) on this. Shatner decided to address the elephant in the book, and all that got him was more grief. At that point he probably decided he couldn't win and just moved on. I mean, honestly, how bad could his behavior really have been?? I still wish George would bury the hatchet with Bill already.
Geeze! Pressure, pressure, pressure!
What issues did they have with the book?
Looking forward to JQ's answer to Harvey's question. I seem to remember Ms. Nichols having some (characteristically vague) rebuttals that didn't seem to justify her stance. But I have no recollection of Ms. Barrett saying anything.
Shatner appears amazed that people have a problem with the way he treats them.
He says he can't understand why Nimoy stopped talking to him.
Apparently he's an innocent victim.
I'm not saying he''s done anything that bad but if you dish out you've got to learn to take it.
Something specific about Shatner's memory book that concerns me is that he constantly mentions that Nimoy was an alcoholic. Was that well-known? Was it Shatner's story to yell?
I can relate! I'm working on a long-gestating book project myself (about the DC Animated Universe), and although people are telling me they can't wait to read it, I have to keep telling them it's a looooong way off from completion, as I'm still in midst of conducting interviews for it (Although I did get to talk to two new people this week, so that's good.)Geeze! Pressure, pressure, pressure!
OK, let me first qualify this by saying that I'm going from memory here, as I no longer recall exactly where I first read this stuff. (Perhaps while flipping through Nichols' own bio? I honestly forget.)
Nichols objected to a passage in Star Trek Memories where Shatner talked about the fact that she and GR had had a romantic relationship sometime before TOS (I forget if it was an extramarital affair or not). I think she wanted to save that for her own book. (Which, if that's so, don't talk to Shatner about that stuff, Nichelle. He can't use what you don't give him.) And she REALLY didn't like a bit where Shatner and Kreski quoted her out of context by saying that GR's "appetite" was "voracious," with all the sexual connotations that that implies. What Nichols said she actually said was that GR had a voracious appetite for life -- Which, yeah, that's quite a different thing.
I have a feeling that some of that might have been Chris Kreski's influence, as he also co-wrote Barry Williams' Growing Up Brady, which had a similar focus on salacious details like Barry Williams going on a date with his TV mom Florence Henderson, and the teen romances among the cast playing the Brady kids.
Barrett's statement was much more general, along the lines of (again, IIRC): "Bill's book should be in the fiction aisle, it's so full of baloney."
Sorry I can't give you more details, but that's all I can recall right now. If you're researching this stuff, I hope it's of some help to you.
Last edited:
Yes. Adam Nimoy talks about it a little in his documentary "For the Love of Spock"
I can relate! I'm working on a long-gestating book project myself (about the DC Animated Universe), and although people are telling me they can't wait to read it, I have to keep telling them it's a looooong way off from completion, as I'm still in midst of conducting interviews for it (Although I did get to talk to two new people this week, so that's good.)
OK, let me first qualify this by saying that I'm going from memory here, as I no longer recall exactly where I first read this stuff. (Perhaps while flipping through Nichols' own bio? I honestly forget.)
Nichols objected to a passage where Shatner talked about the fact that she and GR had had a romantic relationship sometime before TOS (I forget if it was an extramarital affair or not). I think she wanted to save that for her own book. (Which, if that's so, don't talk to Shatner about that stuff, Nichelle. He can't use what you don't give him.) And she REALLY didn't like a bit where Shatner and Kreski quoted her out of context by saying that GR's "appetite" was "voracious," with all the sexual connotations that that implies. What Nichols said she actually said was that GR had a voracious appetite for life -- Which, yeah, that's quite a different thing.
I have a feeling that some of that might have been Chris Kreski's influence, as he also co-wrote Barry Williams' Growing Up Brady, which had a similar focus on salacious details like Barry Williams going on a date with his TV mom Florence Henderson, and the teen romances among the cast playing the Brady kids.
Barrett's statement was much more general, along the lines of (again, IIRC): "Bill's book should be in the fiction aisle, it's so full of baloney."
Sorry I can't give you more details, but that's all I can recall right now. If you're researching this stuff, I hope it's of some help to you.
Wow! You didn't let me down! Great memory!
I am a huge DC fan BTW and I hope your project goes well. Sounds awesome!
I was typing it as you posted this!
My read on Shatner is that he's more ignorant and oblivious at times than truly malicious. I don't think he really realized the effect that his behavior could have on folks at the time. Takei told a story in his bio about Shatner not remembering his name when they worked on another job in between shooting "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and the pickup of TOS as a series. As someone who can often blank on names of acquaintances myself (I remember faces much better than names), I know how awkward it can be when you have no idea how to address somebody.
Nichols also tells a story to Shatner in Star Trek Memories where, on set during the TOS days, he said something like, "C'mon, Uhura doesn't need to be saying that! Let's cut that line," thinking that her dialogue wasn't relevant to the plot of the episode (Which, let's face it, it probably wasn't), and not thinking about how he was suggesting cutting Nichelle's only lines from the show. And when 1960s Nichelle said something like "Dammit, Bill, don't disrespect me like that!" he immediately apologized.
Nimoy and Shatner talked quite frankly about Nimoy's alcoholism as well as the alcoholism of Shatner's late wife Nerine in the 2001 one-on-one interview DVD Mind Meld: Secrets Behind the Voyage of a Lifetime (which I also highly recommend, BTW). Some clips of it also appear in Adam Nimoy's recent documentary For the Love of Spock.
I was typing it as you posted this!
My read on Shatner is that he's more ignorant and oblivious at times than truly malicious. I don't think he really realized the effect that his behavior could have on folks at the time. Takei told a story in his bio about Shatner not remembering his name when they worked on another job in between shooting "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and the pickup of TOS as a series. As someone who can often blank on names of acquaintances myself (I remember faces much better than names), I know how awkward it can be when you have no idea how to address somebody.
Nichols also tells a story to Shatner in Star Trek Memories where, on set during the TOS days, he said something like, "C'mon, Uhura doesn't need to be saying that! Let's cut that line," thinking that her dialogue wasn't relevant to the plot of the episode (Which, let's face it, it probably wasn't), and not thinking about how he was suggesting cutting Nichelle's only lines from the show. And when 1960s Nichelle said something like "Dammit, Bill, don't disrespect me like that!" he immediately apologized.
Nimoy and Shatner talked quite frankly about Nimoy's alcoholism as well as the alcoholism of Shatner's late wife Nerine in the 2001 one-on-one interview DVD Mind Meld: Secrets Behind the Voyage of a Lifetime (which I also highly recommend, BTW). Some clips of it also appear in Adam Nimoy's recent documentary For the Love of Spock.
I agree that Shatner appears to be oblivious.
Yes he cites some minor examples to show that his co-workers are being petty and to show him in a good light. As I would if I were him.
I don't think its just one incident with Shatner. Its years of slights. But all pretty low-key. Hanging up on the phone. Cutting their lines. Pretending he doesn't know them. Probably from Shatner's lofty perch he treats everyone this way I'm guessing and wonders why his Star Trek co-workers get upset at him. Probably Nimoy would have had the biggest beef with Shatner. The way he acted on set with him in TOS. Not all Shatner's fault but Shatner has to take some responsibility. But they later became good friends. I imagine at that stage maybe Shatner had come to regard Nimoy as an equal.
Yeah. In the Mind Meld DVD, Shatner describes his costars' problems with him as sounding "so minute" that he still doesn't quite understand what the problem is/was. And, as the four costars weren't around on set as often as Nimoy and Kelley were, Shatner didn't get to know them as well.
Another thing that I think plays into it is that the costars like Doohan, Takei, Nichols, and Koenig didn't express their grievances to him for the longest time. So Shatner probably just assumed that everything was copacetic. And the grievances just built up more and more in his costar's minds over the years, until when they finally come pouring out, they get really aggressive about it. Nimoy talks on the Mind Meld DVD about how in the movie era, one of the costars didn't say good night to him as they were both leaving the lot for the night. (Nimoy discreetly doesn't mention who it was.) The next morning, Nimoy saw the actor again and said, "Hey, you didn't say 'Good night' to me last night." The other actor immediately shot back, "...Do you want to know WHY?!?" And Nimoy thought, "No, I'm not sure that I do." To the other actor, it was something they were stewing over for at least a day, but to Nimoy, it was out of nowhere. It's tough to resolve a conflict if one of the parties has no idea that a conflict even exists.
Yeah, I think by the time of the movies, Shatner and Nimoy came to regard each other as friends and colleagues. The favored nations clauses in their contracts (whatever one got, the other got) and shared life experiences probably also played into them becoming closer over the years.
During the TOS days, Shatner had to notice what a breakout character that Mr. Spock was becoming, and became understandably threatened about Nimoy walking away with the show. It wasn't that long before that Jonathan Harris' Dr. Smith became the de facto star of Lost in Space, and David McCallum's Illya Kuryakin went from being a one-shot character in the pilot episode of The Man From U.N.C.L.E. to being an equal costar to Robert Vaughn in the series (a phenomenon that Shatner would've witnessed first hand when he and Nimoy guest-starred on U.N.C.L.E. during the first season). When you look at it in that context, you can understand a bit more why Shatner might've felt threatened by the pointy-eared guy.
I agree with a lot of what's been said, and I would just add a couple of things:
The 1970s conventions were a heady time for the supporting actors. The fans in any given town, but especially province towns away from LA, Chicago, and NYC, didn't get much show business action in person. Their conventions were lucky to get a single one of the supporting cast to show up, and that was it. And these fans were so thrilled to see anyone from Star Trek that they cheered the supporting actor like a superstar.
George, Nichelle, etc., started thinking they really were big stars. It's a good feeling. "And if I'm so adored by the fans, why didn't I have a bigger part on the show? It's time to get annoyed at the show's actual star, who didn't shower me with respect."
Add to that, when they wrote books to cash in on their fame, it was obvious that dirty laundry would sell more copies than "happy family" tales. So now it's a bread and butter issue.
When your ego and your bank account are both helped by a thing, that thing becomes a big damn deal and pretty soon you're married to it. Trashing Shatner becomes the Forever War.
The 1970s conventions were a heady time for the supporting actors. The fans in any given town, but especially province towns away from LA, Chicago, and NYC, didn't get much show business action in person. Their conventions were lucky to get a single one of the supporting cast to show up, and that was it. And these fans were so thrilled to see anyone from Star Trek that they cheered the supporting actor like a superstar.
George, Nichelle, etc., started thinking they really were big stars. It's a good feeling. "And if I'm so adored by the fans, why didn't I have a bigger part on the show? It's time to get annoyed at the show's actual star, who didn't shower me with respect."
Add to that, when they wrote books to cash in on their fame, it was obvious that dirty laundry would sell more copies than "happy family" tales. So now it's a bread and butter issue.
When your ego and your bank account are both helped by a thing, that thing becomes a big damn deal and pretty soon you're married to it. Trashing Shatner becomes the Forever War.
Here’s my list:
Star Trek Lives!
Shatner: Where No Man...
Star Trek: Good News in Modern Images
Meaning in Star Trek
Letters to Star Trek
The Best of Trek
All those books listes above are filled with documented history, while my list is chockablock with unsupported speculation and gushing “gosh wow!”
Now, I ask you, which kind of book actually captures the genuine experience of a 12-year-old Trekkie in the late ‘70’s?
Star Trek Lives!
Shatner: Where No Man...
Star Trek: Good News in Modern Images
Meaning in Star Trek
Letters to Star Trek
The Best of Trek
All those books listes above are filled with documented history, while my list is chockablock with unsupported speculation and gushing “gosh wow!”
Now, I ask you, which kind of book actually captures the genuine experience of a 12-year-old Trekkie in the late ‘70’s?
All those books listes above are filled with documented history, while my list is chockablock with unsupported speculation and gushing “gosh wow!”
Now, I ask you, which kind of book actually captures the genuine experience of a 12-year-old Trekkie in the late ‘70’s?
Well, as someone who was a 15 year old Trekkie in the late '70's, the first three on my list were my genuine experience of Trek back then (the last two on my list were not published until the 90's).
Agreed.
I bought the first edition and read it cover to cover to the point where the pages separated from the spine. Loved that book, and it was the next "must have" ST book after The Making of Star Trek.
Oh, yes. The franchise's biggest in-front-of-the-camera player was also more of an insider on the TOS production than most would ever know or admit, and his book was a wealth of insightful information.
Excellent list overall, JonnyQuest.
I would add The World of Star Trek by David Gerrold, as its one of the best accounts of behind the scenes issues, early syndication years fandom (good and bad) ever written, and to read this when first published in 1973, it left many a TOS fan with a "you are there" feeling few books have matched since.
Good catch. Its a page turner of good and rare stuff.
Anything @Harvey eventually publishes
Oh, without a doubt!
Yes. I never got a copy of the first edition, though. I believe it had a lot more info than the subsequent editions? I'm not sure if I've ever even seen a copy.
The first version of the Compendium that I got was the 1986 20th Anniversary Edition (the one with the brown cover) that covered the series and the movies up to STIII. I believe it was a Christmas present from my dad, along with a VHS copy of The Wrath of Khan. That book was really responsible for making me a hardcore Trek fan. And my copy of that edition also has pages falling out of the spine now.
And I just pulled my copy the Compendium off the shelf for the first time in years (I usually grab the revised edition from 1989 with the black cover when I need to check something, as my copy of that is in much better shape), and inside is a signed 8x10 headshot of Walter Koenig! He appeared at the opening of a Blockbuster Video in Nashville when I was living there in the late 80s. HA -- I'd forgotten I had that! I'm going to have to get that framed.
Thank you!
The World of Star Trek just missed my list. If I hadn't had to limit it to five, I'd have definitely included it. It's cool to read David Gerrold making suggestions to revisions to ST's format that eventually found their way into Star Trek: The Next Generation.
And I know that Thanos007 didn't ask about books about production of the movies, but what the hell -- I highly recommend all of the following:
A View From the Bridge by Nicholas Meyer (It also covers other movies he was involved with like Time After Time and The Seven Per-Cent Solution, but the main emphasis is on his Trek material)
Star Trek Movie Memories by William Shatner with Chris Kreski (Shatner's memories of the movie era are a lot fresher than on TOS, and you can get a good idea of which cast members Shatner pissed off with his first book by who didn't speak to him again for this one
)Chekov's Enterprise: A Personal Journal of the Making of Star Trek: The Motion Picture by Walter Koenig (Based upon the diary he kept while the shooting on TMP dragged on over schedule. It's interesting to hear the perspective of someone who's lower down on the food chain and not privy to all the behind-the-scenes decision making.)
Return to Tomorrow: The Filming of Star Trek - The Motion Picture by Preston Neal Jones (An oral history of TMP, based on the interviews for a double-sized issue of Cinefantastique that never saw the light of day for reasons I forget now. This one was a limited edition, so it may be tough to find, but I see a few copies available on Amazon.)
Fade In: The Making of Star Trek Insurrection - A Textbook on Screenwriting from Within the Star Trek Universe by Michael Piller (IIRC, this one was never officially published because Paramount put the kibosh on it - I think it revealed more than they were comfortable with. I read most of it in a PDF on some site or another, as I recall.)
Last edited:
Yep. I still have my copy from 1973 and this is why I still own it, whereas my copy of Gerrold's tribbles book (published at the same time) vanished long ago.
I downloaded a text-only version of this about 5 years ago from TrekCore and found it quite absorbing; its title was somewhat different: FADE IN: From Idea to Final Draft / The Writing of Star Trek: Insurrection. (Before that, I'd seen a fancier version of the same text, nicely typeset and laid out with movie stills. Not sure whether either version can be easily found online today.)
These are the non-fiction books I own (not pictured: Cushman volume 1):
I've also read Inside Star Trek and loved it, but that was a borrowed copy.
I've also read Inside Star Trek and loved it, but that was a borrowed copy.
Similar threads
