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What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

Yeah, the argumentation seems to proceed from a premise I don't follow or see.
1. TOS portrays Kirk as (something like) a womanizer and adventurer who should remain unattached.
2. #1 is based on the attitudes and interests of series creator Roddenberry, particularly his ideas about masculinity and sexuality.
3. The writers of Wrath of Khan grasped onto the lack of committed relationships in order to shape some sorts of regrets in his middle years.
4. The dialogue between Marcus and Kirk reflects a a situation in which the writers had to acknowledge this reputation the Kirk character without making him look like a deadbeat dad.
5. Marcus' speech reflects what the legacy of Kirk was since TOS (Roddenberry) and the needs of the writers to create a sympathetic story for the hero.
 
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3. The writers of Wrath of Khan grasped onto the lack of committed relationships in order to shape some sorts of regrets in his middle years.

Which is very human and a valid avenue to explore.

4. The dialogue between Marcus and Kirk reflects a a situation in which the writers had to acknowledge this reputation the Kirk character without making him look like a deadbeat dad.

Oh, the whole audience already knew Kirk was a deadbeat dad the moment we met David Marcus. :lol:

5. Marcus' speech reflects what the legacy of Kirk was since TOS (Roddenberry) and the needs of the writers to create a sympathetic story for the hero.

As I reach my mid-50's, I have no sympathy for Kirk. Not sure I ever did. Like each of us, he's made his choices and now has to live with them.
 
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1. TOS portrays Kirk as (something like) a womanizer and adventurer who should remain unattached.
2. #1 is based on the attitudes and interests of series creator Roddenberry, particularly his ideas about masculinity and sexuality.
3. The writers of Wrath of Khan grasped onto the lack of committed relationships in order to shape some sorts of regrets in his middle years.
4. The dialogue between Marcus and Kirk reflects a a situation in which the writers had to acknowledge this reputation the Kirk character without making him look like a deadbeat dad.
5. Marcus' speech reflects what the legacy of Kirk was since TOS (Roddenberry) and the needs of the writers to create a sympathetic story for the hero.
I don't think I agree with the ultimate result with Kirk and his relationships. It doesn't reflect him not being a dead beat because it was a mutual agreement.
 
even in the series there are multiple times when he would have stayed.and even the women he wouldn't have stayed with he still clearly cared for, which... a womanizer *doesn't* care. there are a few he charmed simply to get something out of them, and even then he doesn't usually seem happy with it. a lot of kirk's reputation for womanizing is... kind of memery, rather than truth.

and he's not a deadbeat dad, a deadbeat is someone who avoids responsibility, not one who gets pushed away.
 
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I never said he was a deadbeat dad ... they didn't want to make him look like one, putting the agency in Carol Marcus' side. Regardless, this is splitting hairs at this point.
The result is is looks like avoidance on both parties. Zero compromise.

Honestly, to me, if it reflects any stereotypes, it's the whole two working career driven individuals who couldn't compromise.
 
This one little line from McCoy, from TUC, who knows Kirk very well, pretty much explains it all.
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I am not sure why you are unwilling to accept that there could be motivations and interests outside the story that shape what happens inside.
It does not follow at all that I am unwilling to accept this. I simply explained what I think is the case in this particular instance, while referring to what was actually present between Kirk and Rand in the episodes that had Rand as a character in them. They didn't write Kirk or Rand as characters with zero attraction between them. It's explicit text in "Miri" that Rand wanted Kirk to notice her legs. It's implied by Kirk's mannerisms in "The Naked Time," when he says "No beach to walk on," that he finds Rand attractive. Do I even need to cite what happens in "The Enemy Within," including the observation Spock makes to Rand at the end? If Roddenberry didn't want there to be sexual tension between Kirk and Rand at least sometimes, none of that would have happened.

Gene Roddenberry maintained attitudes on a range of things that made themselves into stories, often making for complications for the franchise over decades. One of his scripts even has Kirk bed a slave, an act of non-consensual sex. Even Pike dreams of dealing with sex slaves. As much as Roddenberry is credited for depicting women and minorities in positions of power, he could also undermine the progressiveness in other ways. His male heroes have problems.
So, what? This has no bearing on any of the issues that up until this point had been under discussion.

She read Kirk's attitude was that the family was the woman's domain; what she did was make sure he had no power in it. In the end, it was another situation from the sexual revolution from the 60s in which men were somehow more liberated than women.
This is said nowhere. It's noncanonical. You are injecting your headcanon and fanon into the story so that it conforms to your own worldview.

Carol Marcus' decision reflects things that we know about Kirk because we watched every episode ad infinitum. Kirk was rarely going to be there; why should he be there at all? I don't think the idea that it's Marcus who rejects Kirk really works. It is at best a retcon. It would be no different with any woman who found herself with a playboy.
The idea that it was Carol Marcus who wanted Kirk out of David's life is canonical. It's both spoken by Carol and acknowledged by Kirk. Carol's position is that they were both to blame for not being together. That's literal text in the dialog I quoted, requoted below. But since they were not going to be together, because she had her world and he had his, she wanted David in hers.

In TWOK, Kirk and Carol say [transcript]:​
KIRK: I did what you wanted. ...I stayed away. ...Why didn't you tell him?​
CAROL: How can you ask me that? Were we together? Were we going to be? You had your world and I had mine. And I wanted him in mine, not chasing through the universe with his father. ... Actually, he's a lot like you. In many ways. Please tell me what you're feeling.​

Kirk can't have relationships, especially on the ship. He needs to be available.
Well, that's a goalpost shift. At first it was about "attachments." Now it's about "relationships." A no-strings-attached relationship is a relationship that precludes attachment. There is of course overlap, but ultimately relationships and attachments are two different things. The term long-term relationship also underscores the distinction, with its qualification. I've boldfaced the goalpost shift.

The idea that Kirk feels he must remain unattached is baked into TOS, starting with Naked Time, no? It figured into the rationalization given for the dismissal of Grace Lee Whitney and the removal of her character: the captain needs to be free, and can't have attachments, especially on the ship.
 
So, what? This has no bearing on any of the issues that up until this point had been under discussion.
Was not this post of mine what started this line of debate?
The problem is that the decisions Carol Marcus made were more a reflection of the attitudes of the horny male creator of the show and the male writer of the film. Kirk was free from parenthood because Roddenberry wanted his hero to be promiscuous and because Nicholas Meyer thought a sudden family member would make a great plot point for his meditation on aging and mortality.

Well, that's a goalpost shift. At first it was about "attachments." Now it's about "relationships."
Really? A shift of word choice? I can't take this seriously. Bye.
 
Bye!!

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To clarify my point, Kirk was shown having relationships all of the time. They did not lead to committed relationships for whatever reason, even if it required killing off the woman involved. Kirk had relationships all the time, but no lasting attachments.

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Controversial opinion?

It was implied that McCoy and Tonia Barrows were going to have sex on the Shore Leave Planet. They had at least a short-term relationship [a discussion thread that further underscores that relationship and attachment are two different things], it wasn't long-term, and it didn't lead to a committed relationship between them involving attachment.
 
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In TWOK, Kirk and Carol say [transcript]:

KIRK: I did what you wanted. ...I stayed away. ...Why didn't you tell him?​
CAROL: How can you ask me that? Were we together? Were we going to be? You had your world and I had mine. And I wanted him in mine, not chasing through the universe with his father. ... Actually, he's a lot like you. In many ways. Please tell me what you're feeling.​
You know, both Nick Meyer and William Shatner have said repeatedly, particularly in their respective books, that the scene was re-shot, after studio prodding, to change Kirk's question to "why didn't you tell ME" so that Kirk doesn't look like a schmuck who ignored his own son all of his life. However, having watched TWOK a million times, I feel pretty confident that what's in the film is "why didn't you tell him."

Regardless, I don't think the whole "deadbeat dad" thing fits with Kirk's character. Yes, he's had a number of relationships with women, both serious and purely physical (though far less than the stereotype). However, Kirk is not an irresponsible person nor an immoral one. I can't see him willfully choosing to ignore his own son, regardless of the circumstances of his conception. That just doesn't play for me based on everything else we know of the character.
 
You know, both Nick Meyer and William Shatner have said repeatedly, particularly in their respective books, that the scene was re-shot, after studio prodding, to change Kirk's question to "why didn't you tell ME" so that Kirk doesn't look like a schmuck who ignored his own son all of his life. However, having watched TWOK a million times, I feel pretty confident that what's int he film is "why didn't you tell him."
Page 128 of Meyer's book
 
After Gene Roddenberry and Gene L. Coon, the person who was next most responsible for the writing on Star Trek, and the character development, was D.C. Fontana. The "D" stands for Dorothy and she was a woman. She had as much to do with the development of these characters as anyone.
Unfortunately, her own memory of the era was of being screwed over by Roddenbery, financially and creatively. One scholars assessment was that in spite of Fontana, the production remained "a boys' club." (Space, the Feminist Frontier)
 
Unfortunately, her own memory of the era was of being screwed over by Roddenbery, financially and creatively. One scholars assessment was that in spite of Fontana, the production remained "a boys' club." (Space, the Feminist Frontier)
Fontana had enormous influence over the show and the characters and said so quite often. Her experience on TNG was an unpleasant one, but not TOS. Unfortunately, the book you cite is pushing a particular agenda and running everything throgh that lens.

Here is an excellent, long-form interview given by Fontana to the Writer's Guild, in which she talks extensively about all the influence she had on the show:
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