What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Kamen Rider Blade]

"just because has never gone over well with this audience since TMP.

Yet TMP was one of the best performing Trek Movies adjusted for inflation.

but you're not, you're insisting on reaching for hypothetical hyperstrength, hyperlight, materials that somehow will be the equal of the shields (or better), without hindering the performance of a ship.

i know armor tech and metallurgy have changed a lot and could still change. but within the technological lore of star trek, shields effectively are the armor, and point defense to a degree. plus, thek can be moved around somewhat and even come back, provided the generators and projectors aren't knocked out.

ablative armor just... goes away. and even if you keep replicating more on, that is another power drain, plus eventually your ship will just be surrounded by a cloud of hot gas that is now dumping the heat back into it.

Yes, I know it doesn't make you invincible, it just takes longer to kill you.
But that's my point, the technology would make battles that traditionally only lasts minutes on screen, into much longer affairs.

A Hour long battle or a few hours is still puny on the cosmic time-scale, so it doesn't save you from getting hurt.

It does drag out the fight though, which is by design.

Making StarFleet Tougher, not really invincible, because nothing is invincible IMO.

Everything can be defeated if you have the right weapons, tech, know-how, etc.
Even "Q" can die if you have the right weapons, so nothing is scared.

 

[fireproof78]

Yet TMP was one of the best performing Trek Movies adjusted for inflation.

Ah, so financial success defines what must be done?

The Klingon changes were definitely accepted without question if I recall correct

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Ah, so financial success defines what must be done?

I also enjoyed TMP when it was replayed on TV.
So I liked it. I didn't even know about the controversy behind it until much later into my Trek Fandom.

The Klingon changes were definitely accepted without question if I recall correct

Obviously that had it's share of bug bears, but most fans generally accept the TNG era Klingon design as the permanent look.

 

[HotRod]

But that's my point, the technology would make battles that traditionally only lasts minutes on screen, into much longer affairs.

A Hour long battle or a few hours is still puny on the cosmic time-scale, so it doesn't save you from getting hurt.

It does drag out the fight though, which is by design.

Hour long battle....ugh. Talk about sucking all the drama and excitement out of a space battle.

 

[fireproof78]

Obviously that had it's share of bug bears, but most fans generally accept the TNG era Klingon design as the permanent look.

They look nothing like Klingons in later iterations so I don't know what there was there to accept.

The make up was updated and tweaked over production eras and lives. It's hardly "the accepted" because the look is so different that I can tell the era of a comic book because of Klingon design.

My larger point is that the argument being made is just "change it because it makes someone happier," which is fine; I said I could accept it but the logic seems to end with "Because I like it" while ignoring what is put forth in design language on screen.

 

[Firebird]

Hour long battle....ugh. Talk about sucking all the drama and excitement out of a space battle.

Yet another example of the difference between a technical manual and a filmable script for television.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Hour long battle....ugh. Talk about sucking all the drama and excitement out of a space battle.

Yet another example of the difference between a technical manual and a filmable script for television.

You do know that ST: Discovery S2's final battle was 1 hour long.

Some Sci-Fi / Mecha Animes have entire episodes or movies that are super long battles.

Same with other regular Animes as well.

Long battles isn't a new thing in the modern era.

Danmachi's S5 Final Battle was about that long as well when you watch all the ep's back to back.

They look nothing like Klingons in later iterations so I don't know what there was there to accept.

Later iterations post Berman era started reverting back to the TNG era designs after the hub-bub made online.

The make up was updated and tweaked over production eras and lives. It's hardly "the accepted" because the look is so different that I can tell the era of a comic book because of Klingon design.

But most of the design looks similar to a specific era generally, the armor & clothing is what changed the most IMO.

My larger point is that the argument being made is just "change it because it makes someone happier," which is fine; I said I could accept it but the logic seems to end with "Because I like it" while ignoring what is put forth in design language on screen.

That's the thing, I'm not changing it because "I just like it", if that was the case, I wouldn't bother.
But I do analyze things from all perspectives, if there isn't a logical technical reason that it would improve things, I wouldn't make the change.

Despite some hub-bub some Trekkies feel about Floating Nacelles & Saucers seperated from the Star Drive in the 32nd century.
After deep thought and logical reasoning, I agree that is a evolutionary direction that makes logical sense for numerous technical reasons.

 

[137th Gebirg]

 

[cooleddie74]

 

[nightwind1]

Then what is it about?


Shields are obviously essential, but whey can't other parts of the fundamental design change for the sake of improvement?
What's stopping it from other than "You don't want to".


The same can be said for any major changes in history.

We went from 4x Engine Airliners to 2x Engine Airliners becoming normal.
Eventually change was had.
Same with most big technological change.

CRT's was fine, but we moved to LCD screens anyways.

CIC's on Modern Naval Combat vessels are buried into the hull as is.

Given that Star Trek has usually followed with Naval Doctrinal change, it's about time that we move out of WW2 era doctrine and started catching up wtih modern Naval Design Doctrine.

Nah...

 

[korblborp]

Hour long battle....ugh. Talk about sucking all the drama and excitement out of a space battle.

an issue with seeing something like the Honor Harrington series adapted to screen, many of the battles are hours long. some of the bigger, multiphase ones take days. because the ships are thousands of miles apart in their own formations and engagements are at distances of hundreds of thousands... not sure how you'd deal with that.

 

[Firebird]

You do know that ST: Discovery S2's final battle was 1 hour long.

Some Sci-Fi / Mecha Animes have entire episodes or movies that are super long battles.

Same with other regular Animes as well.

I'm looking at the script for Such Sweet Sorrow, Part II right now, and it used acts one through three of the episode for the battle, not the full hour.

Anime pacing is quite different from a one-hour live action drama made in the west and isn't a fair comparison.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

an issue with seeing something like the Honor Harrington series adapted to screen, many of the battles are hours long. some of the bigger, multiphase ones take days. because the ships are thousands of miles apart in their own formations and engagements are at distances of hundreds of thousands... not sure how you'd deal with that.

Spoiler: Babylon 5 - Battle of Gorash VII ReMastered

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Long distance BVR battles can be portrayed well if you want to.

Babylon 5 did it.

I'm looking at the script for Such Sweet Sorrow, Part II right now, and it used acts one through three of the episode for the battle, not the full hour.

Anime pacing is quite different from a one-hour live action drama made in the west and isn't a fair comparison.

I'm sure we can adapt the Battle / Storyline as needed to run the entire hour or longer as needed for the battle drama.

 

[korblborp]

said anime battles are often just massive fleets shooting laser beams, and then there's explosions at the other end, then more coming back, for ages; or they are often not actually so long, but giving you different persoectives that are actually concurrent; or they are adapted from shonen and what takes a few panels takes up much more in animation.

i'll be honest, i do not want bridgegrowling in my star trek fights XD that'll take up the space for the philosophical parts or the barclay parts or the finding another solution besides blasting parts

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

said anime battles are often just massive fleets shooting laser beams, and then there's explosions at the other end, then more coming back, for ages; or they are often not actually so long, but giving you different persoectives that are actually concurrent; or they are adapted from shonen and what takes a few panels takes up much more in animation.

i'll be honest, i do not want bridgegrowling in my star trek fights XD that'll take up the space for the philosophical parts or the barclay parts

Have you not watched Gundam or Macross Battles?

Some of them can be very long.

Don't worry, you'll have your philosophical parts & barclay parts as well.

That will never go away.

Who doesn't love a good "Captain's Speech".

 

[fireproof78]

Later iterations post Berman era started reverting back to the TNG era designs after the hub-bub made online.

But most of the design looks similar to a specific era generally, the armor & clothing is what changed the most IMO.

TMP era Klingon. Easy to tell. The make up is unmistakable.

Compare to Kruge in the next film:

Could be a whole different race.

That's the thing, I'm not changing it because "I just like it", if that was the case, I wouldn't bother.
But I do analyze things from all perspectives, if there isn't a logical technical reason that it would improve things, I wouldn't make the change.

What hasn't been demonstrated is the improvement or regarding the tech of the world. The assumption is based out of the real world, that armor must be improved in order to secure the bridge. Except, the Bridge has not been shown consistently more vulnerable than other spaces on a ship.

So, there is an assumption of premise that isn't leading to a conclusion that is actually considering Star Trek technology. It's ignoring it because the preference is to seal the bridge in a vault, despite several people noting that there is a psychological aspect of desire to see out, that real world navies have both a secured CIC as well as a bridge that allows personnel to see, and the simple fact that in 940 episodes thus far aired the bridge hasn't been destroyed all that often.

We can't just say "it's logical to do X" because we are not considering the in universe information.

 

[Firebird]

Long =/= compelling television.

 

[HotRod]

You do know that ST: Discovery S2's final battle was 1 hour long.

This isn't the flex you think it is.

That battle will go down as one of the worst in the franchise.

Two Starships just sitting there and getting shot at for an hour while a thousand drones buzz around them was not exactly compelling television.

It was shit.

 

[korblborp]

Spoiler: Babylon 5 - Battle of Gorash VII ReMastered

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Long distance BVR battles can be portrayed well if you want to.

Babylon 5 did it.


I'm sure we can adapt the Battle / Storyline as needed to run the entire hour or longer as needed for the battle drama.

that was still minutes at practically knife-fighting distance. both forces are on the same side of the planet, for crying out loud XD

 

[cooleddie74]

This isn't the flex you think it is.

That battle will go down as one of the worst in the franchise.

Two Starships just sitting there and getting shot at for an hour while a thousand drones buzz around them for an hour was not exactly compelling television.

It was shit.

Thank you.